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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Imaro" data-source="post: 7694697" data-attributes="member: 48965">Where are the rules for severing limbs?   I think you missed the entire point... the point was that a "fumble" does not have to equate with a stick through someone's eye... not that there shouldn't be a difference.  In a previous post I listed some differences but it's all system and user dependent... that's what you keep missing.  Han stepping on the twig doesn't give the result... as I remember you post Han has to step on a twig and loose initiative... so mechanically they are not the same thing even if they appear similar when described.  For that matter why have different weapons that do 1d8?  whether it can be wielded using strength or dexterity the result is the same... right?? Wrong the mechanics and details matter. Prove it?  Otherwise your assertion of it being a critical is no more or less valid than my assertion that it's a fumble on Luke's part... and in D&D crits don't sever limbs... so basically we're bith just making up systems to cover something colored by our aesthetic preferences.  Honestly my players would better take loosing a limb if they made a low roll than because an NPC made a high roll... but again that's the point it's preference.Because how you get to the result is also important??   All of the examples... what you've shown is that multiple failures at multiple checks can cause a situation to arise that mimics what happens on the single fumble roll... but what you haven't shown is how just from Han stepping on the twig (not also failing an initiative roll or a surprise check as well) the results that transpired come about.  Do you get the difference?And you do realize people are talking about everything from D&D to RM to Numenera to BW... why do you keep assuming we're speaking to D&D? As to your actual assertion... it's incorrect.  In 5e DMG page 242 there is the "Degrees of Failure" & "Critical Success or Failure" options which very much allows a group playing D&D to have a "critical fumble"...</blockquote>

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