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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Imaro" data-source="post: 7695326" data-attributes="member: 48965">Just wanted to comment on a few things...If you are using a fumble system where the only result is "drop your weapon" whenever a 1 is rolled... your fumble system sucks.  How about your weapon breaks (redusing the damage it can cause),  You stumble in the (muck, ice, mud, foliage, etc.) and find yourself in an awkward position for your next attack so take disadvantage on your next melee/spellcasting attack roll... Your opponent catches you off guard with a feint that you never saw coming, giving your opponent a +2 on his next attack... and so on.  These are all things that happen to skilled warriors in fiction and even skilled martial artist in real fights... and guess what... they do happen to them more often over their lifetime because they are fighting & training more often against more skilled opponents than the untrained peasant... The untrained peasant going up against an average foe for a 20th level fighter is dead before he even gets to react to the attack... or his attack is so ineffective that ultimately if given the chance to continuously wail away at the opponent he will fumble more times than the 20th level fighter because the 20th level fighter will actually kill the opponent at some point.  I'm failing to see how this is immersion breaking in any way.As for the Cypher system... let's not get Monte's preferences confused with the actual GM intrusion mechanic of the system.  I like the actual mechanic because it doesn't prescribe the way( except to say make it interesting for whatever value interesting is at your table) in which a GM intrusion has to arise, it allows any type of fumble/intrusion that the GM or group wants, whether that's a failure above and beyond due to the character's own ineptitude or failure above and beyond due to factors outside of the character's control.  That's it's greatest strength in that it doesn't force a particular play style on a group  (something I value more and more in the games I choose these days) but gives you a nice open ended mechanic and says hey... use this mechanic to suit your preferences...  IMO, it seems Monte is advocating for a mixture as opposed to either of the extremes being dominant and that's pretty much how I run Numenera but I also agree with [MENTION=4937]Celebrim[/MENTION] in that the GM intrusion for all practical purposes is just an open ended fumble system as opposed to something totally different... you could just as easily replace it with a table customized for your group that you roll on whenever a 1 comes up... as long as the results are interesting to your group.</blockquote>

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