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Monte Cook On Fumble Mechanics
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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 7695334" data-attributes="member: 4937"><p>I don't frankly care that you continue to disagree since it has become abundantly clear that you aren't basing your disagreement on any point of reason. First you claimed it was a gross mischaracterization that a missed bowshot could cause orc reinforcements to appear, even though that particular scenario was one endorsed by a proponent of the system who ought to know. Unable to feel any embarrassment once I pointed that out, you've gone on to defend now how reasonable it is that orcs appear as a result of a missed bowshot and still persist in claiming I'm being unreasonable. Yet you cannot actually point out where any of my claims are incorrect or how I am actually mischaracterizing the system. I've not merely repeated that line; I've explained it.</p><p></p><p>If in fact the orc reinforcements aren't pulled out of the air, then it must be that they are part of the established myth of the fiction, so that there is a definite limit to the number of orc reinforcements available, and when those reinforcements are encountered and slain, further investigation of the complex will be <strong>simplified</strong> because areas which were formerly guarded will now be emptied. That is to say these orc reinforcements have concrete existence in the myth prior to appearing that constrains the GM or which, more precisely, the GM allows himself to be constrained by. This is what happens when orc (or norkers, or hill giants, or bandits, or whatever) reinforcements occur as a natural result of the orcs using their available defined and limited resources, as for example in classic modules like B2 Keep on the Borderlands (or Temple of Elemental Evil, or Forgotten Temple of Thardizun, or Steading of the Hill Giant Chieftain). This is what happens when I write down in my prep that there are 57 Phanaton in the village and detail the spells, items, and weapons that they have access to. I am limiting my own power to challenge the PCs during actual play to what I judge is fair and reasonable for the fiction, rather than trusting myself in the heat and stress of running a game to decide what resources are fair and reasonable. </p><p></p><p>But its not what is happening in this case. In this case the additional reinforcements are being written into the fiction at the time the '1' is thrown, invented on the spot, because the '1' is thrown and a complication is needed. The reinforcements would not exist otherwise. They are not being drawn from a limited pool of resources, but added to the fiction at that moment. There was no possible way to spot or observe those 'hidden' orcs before they leaped out and no chance of them dying by being engulfed in flames that washed the area, because they weren't anywhere concrete until needed as a complication and would have just jumped out of somewhere else. They appeared out of thin air wherever it was deemed plausible for them to appear at that moment. They stepped out from behind the fig leaves having been added to the fiction just a moment before. But you cannot admit those simple facts, because it would expose even to yourself how ridiculous your hyperventilating about me pointing out obvious facts about GM Intrusion as "unfairly hyperbolic misconstruction or misreading of the Cypher System and its GM Intrusion, as well as what Charles Ryan and Monte Cook have written" especially given that the example was very much along the lines of what Charles Ryan had actually written just a few posts earlier. </p><p></p><p>The reason this conversation is going no where is that in an effort to not look like a clown, you just keep digging the hole you are in deeper.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 7695334, member: 4937"] I don't frankly care that you continue to disagree since it has become abundantly clear that you aren't basing your disagreement on any point of reason. First you claimed it was a gross mischaracterization that a missed bowshot could cause orc reinforcements to appear, even though that particular scenario was one endorsed by a proponent of the system who ought to know. Unable to feel any embarrassment once I pointed that out, you've gone on to defend now how reasonable it is that orcs appear as a result of a missed bowshot and still persist in claiming I'm being unreasonable. Yet you cannot actually point out where any of my claims are incorrect or how I am actually mischaracterizing the system. I've not merely repeated that line; I've explained it. If in fact the orc reinforcements aren't pulled out of the air, then it must be that they are part of the established myth of the fiction, so that there is a definite limit to the number of orc reinforcements available, and when those reinforcements are encountered and slain, further investigation of the complex will be [b]simplified[/b] because areas which were formerly guarded will now be emptied. That is to say these orc reinforcements have concrete existence in the myth prior to appearing that constrains the GM or which, more precisely, the GM allows himself to be constrained by. This is what happens when orc (or norkers, or hill giants, or bandits, or whatever) reinforcements occur as a natural result of the orcs using their available defined and limited resources, as for example in classic modules like B2 Keep on the Borderlands (or Temple of Elemental Evil, or Forgotten Temple of Thardizun, or Steading of the Hill Giant Chieftain). This is what happens when I write down in my prep that there are 57 Phanaton in the village and detail the spells, items, and weapons that they have access to. I am limiting my own power to challenge the PCs during actual play to what I judge is fair and reasonable for the fiction, rather than trusting myself in the heat and stress of running a game to decide what resources are fair and reasonable. But its not what is happening in this case. In this case the additional reinforcements are being written into the fiction at the time the '1' is thrown, invented on the spot, because the '1' is thrown and a complication is needed. The reinforcements would not exist otherwise. They are not being drawn from a limited pool of resources, but added to the fiction at that moment. There was no possible way to spot or observe those 'hidden' orcs before they leaped out and no chance of them dying by being engulfed in flames that washed the area, because they weren't anywhere concrete until needed as a complication and would have just jumped out of somewhere else. They appeared out of thin air wherever it was deemed plausible for them to appear at that moment. They stepped out from behind the fig leaves having been added to the fiction just a moment before. But you cannot admit those simple facts, because it would expose even to yourself how ridiculous your hyperventilating about me pointing out obvious facts about GM Intrusion as "unfairly hyperbolic misconstruction or misreading of the Cypher System and its GM Intrusion, as well as what Charles Ryan and Monte Cook have written" especially given that the example was very much along the lines of what Charles Ryan had actually written just a few posts earlier. The reason this conversation is going no where is that in an effort to not look like a clown, you just keep digging the hole you are in deeper. [/QUOTE]
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