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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Balesir" data-source="post: 7695500" data-attributes="member: 27160">I can't tell if you are being wilfully obtuse, here, or trying to pull off some sort of obfuscatory argument technique or something, but it seems really simple, to me:1) [MENTION=42582]pemerton[/MENTION] is saying that GM Intrusions on a roll of 1 have to be distinct from simple failed rolls because, well, otherwise they would be just failed rolls. If they weren't different from simple failure, they wouldn't have separate rules.2) Monte is saying that GM Intrusions on a roll of 1 should not always be examples of PC incompetence. They might very well sometimes be, but he is saying they ought often to not be. Thus, there will be cases (if you follow Monte's advice) where they won't be, and we must account for those cases.3) You said (not Monte) that GM Intrusions on a roll of 1 should only ever flow causally from what the character is trying to do when the roll is called for as a means of resolution. [MENTION=42582]pemerton[/MENTION]'s point is that he doesn't see (and, incidentally, neither do I) that it is possible to have all three conditions true at once. "Proof" that you can have (1) and (3) without (2) on the grounds that Monte doesn't say you must always have (2) is irrelevant; if you are to have ANY GM Intrusion (i.e. not a simple failure: 1) that follows Monte's advice (of sometimes having an Intrusion not caused by PC incompetence: 2) you are going to have to have it arise from some factor other than the PC's action (i.e.: 3) unless you can find some cases that are different from a normal failure (1), are not the result of character incompetence (2) and flow causally from what the character is rolling for (3). In other words, if you follow Monte's advice, you must have GM Intrusions that are not caused by the character's action - or you must simply not follow Monte's advice (a perfectly admissible course, even if arguably not playing the game as the creator intended you to).</blockquote>

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