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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Imaro" data-source="post: 7695851" data-attributes="member: 48965">It's an either or debate only because we are comparing it to the same type of intrusion as a technological malfunction in Numenera.  My contention is that Numenera and the Ninth World make this type of GM Intrusion widely applicable and causal because there is a baked in reason in the setting while there is no baked in setting reason for creatures always being hidden and/or in reserve or creatures that get tougher.  Yes this might be applicable to individual creatures (or groups of creatures) but is is not in and of itself a conceit of the Ninth World as a whole.I have never made the claim that this type of Intrusion isn't or shouldn't be in Numenera or the Ninth world... only that it does not meet [MENTION=42582]pemerton[/MENTION]s 3 criteria and that it is not the same (neither broadly applicable nor justified through the conceits of the world as the tech malfunction/flaw intrusion would be).  That's it, that's my assertion and I think you agree with it.  As to why I keep saying "out of thin air"... well because it's the truth.  When using a GM intrusion to manifest these extra creatures the GM is pulling them out of thin air.  They were not established before and there was no chance the PC's could detect them... what else is that but the GM pulling them out of thin air?  I'm not even sure why it's a contentious assertion for me to make since the GM Intrusion specifically grants you the right to do this but let's not pretend it's.... causal in any way or not a failure on the part of the PC's to notice something... because it's both.     I disagree with part of this statement... the GM has just as much control over the NPC's as a player has over his character in Numenera, the only difference is who rolls the dice. However I do agree with the last part... the GM's chance to do extraordinary things with his NPC's relies instead on the player rolling a 1 as opposed to him rolling it himself.Now again it seems the point of this discussion is being lost, I was asked to provide Intrusions that meet pemerton's criteria and I believe many of these (though not all) do because...1. All are different from regular failures on the part of the character2. Many/most are not a result of the character being incompetent in an area3. They are causal from the behavior/characteristics/etc. of the creatureDo you agree with this?</blockquote>

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