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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Greg K" data-source="post: 5694616" data-attributes="member: 5038">Well, even 3e has mixture of both- the problem is  information is scattered.You had the rolls. However, they applied to a 5x5 area and the character had to be within 10' of the area. Searching the wrong area, turns up nothing regardless of the roll.By being more specific about where your character was searching and circumstances there is an additional bonus. While +2 is a recommended standard, the modifier to the roll could be +2 to +20  (see DM's best friend in the DMG). Taking more time, you could take 10 or 20 to search that 5x5 area.At this point it sounds like all about die rolling. However, finding the secret door does not mean you found out how to open it.   The opening mechanism could be elsewhere in the room or some other location as described in the section under doors in the DMG that discusses having special requirements to open them. The example of special requirements to open a door given in the DMG is having the players determine a correct sequence of lever manipulations and the maneuvers being elsewhere. The mechanism for opening the door, however, could simply be the pulling the sconce, removing a book from a shelf, sitting in a chair adding weight to press on a pressure plate, or manipulating a gold tooth in a statue.  Therefore, performing the required action is an automatic success regardless of the die roll or requiring a die roll.If players stating their characters performing specific actions, can be a requirement to open a secret door and, therefore an automatic success, there is no reason that it cannot be applied to other things (e.g., automatically, finding a scroll, map or letter in the cap of a bedpost if the state they are removing the cap).  A successful search or perception check of an area might simply reveal clues leading the characters to the mechanism (e.g., disturbed dust in front of a book on a shelf, scratches or worn down area on the cap of the bedpost, etc.) and require the players to have their characters perform the correct action to succeed.Then again, one may just stumble upon the mechanism to open a secret door."We need a torch. Greenwald removes the one in the sconce". Door opens"You said there is a chair?  Ok, Talia sits in it to catch a breather".  Door opens</blockquote>

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