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<blockquote data-quote="pming" data-source="post: 5692945" data-attributes="member: 45197">Hiya.&nbsp;While I can see the desire to &quot;simplify&quot; the mechanics as an attempt to let the GM and Players 'just roleplay it', I'm finding myself thinking it find for some game genres...Super Heroes comes to mind...but for D&amp;D-style Fantasy? No sir. I don't like it.&nbsp;What I see this as doing is nothing short of &quot;encouraging&quot; players to keep sucking as players. As an example, take a look at the ever popluar, and/or hated, 1e AD&amp;D module S1:The Tomb of Horrors. This module is written to challenge PLAYERS...and *not* their characters, as such. If you take a sextet of experienced 1e players, give them some of the pre-gens from the back, and let 'em at it...and you take a sextet of relatively new (say, less than 2 years) players, give them some of the pre-gens from the back, and let 'em at it...well, I'd bet dimes to dollars that the 1e players far SIGNIFICANTLY better than the relative newbies. The reasoning for that is that the 1e mentality is &quot;The play is the thing&quot;. Playing 1e AD&amp;D sets the players skills, insights, intuition, etc. against the challenges...his character is only there as a proxy for interaction with the world.&nbsp;If 5e starts to basically reduce player skill/insight/etc. to the sidelines, in favor of how many points the character put into Skill X...it'll suck (IMHO, of course). I would like to see 5e try and get *away* from the &quot;PC's chance to succeed&quot; and put it MUCH more in the hands of the GM and Players. In Mikes example, what if the 'non-skilled' player said &quot;I look for secret compartments in the desk...different color or wood type, unusuall cracks, or areas that seem like thicker or thiner wood...&quot;. Is the GM going to just say &quot;No. But Phred finds a hair-line crack reveiling...&quot;? If I was the player I'd be annoyed. What would that &quot;teach&quot; me? That using my brain and imagination in this game is secondary; how I min/max my characters skills is more important. Definitly NOT the way the game should go, IMHO.&nbsp;^_^&nbsp;Paul L. Ming</blockquote>

[QUOTE="pming, post: 5692945, member: 45197"] Hiya. While I can see the desire to "simplify" the mechanics as an attempt to let the GM and Players 'just roleplay it', I'm finding myself thinking it find for some game genres...Super Heroes comes to mind...but for D&D-style Fantasy? No sir. I don't like it. What I see this as doing is nothing short of "encouraging" players to keep sucking as players. As an example, take a look at the ever popluar, and/or hated, 1e AD&D module S1:The Tomb of Horrors. This module is written to challenge PLAYERS...and *not* their characters, as such. If you take a sextet of experienced 1e players, give them some of the pre-gens from the back, and let 'em at it...and you take a sextet of relatively new (say, less than 2 years) players, give them some of the pre-gens from the back, and let 'em at it...well, I'd bet dimes to dollars that the 1e players far SIGNIFICANTLY better than the relative newbies. The reasoning for that is that the 1e mentality is "The play is the thing". Playing 1e AD&D sets the players skills, insights, intuition, etc. against the challenges...his character is only there as a proxy for interaction with the world. If 5e starts to basically reduce player skill/insight/etc. to the sidelines, in favor of how many points the character put into Skill X...it'll suck (IMHO, of course). I would like to see 5e try and get *away* from the "PC's chance to succeed" and put it MUCH more in the hands of the GM and Players. In Mikes example, what if the 'non-skilled' player said "I look for secret compartments in the desk...different color or wood type, unusuall cracks, or areas that seem like thicker or thiner wood...". Is the GM going to just say "No. But Phred finds a hair-line crack reveiling..."? If I was the player I'd be annoyed. What would that "teach" me? That using my brain and imagination in this game is secondary; how I min/max my characters skills is more important. Definitly NOT the way the game should go, IMHO. ^_^ Paul L. Ming [/QUOTE]

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