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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Crazy Jerome" data-source="post: 5693525" data-attributes="member: 54877">I feel like I'm caught in the middle of a gang war here. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" /> I agree with you that everyone needs to be able to do something more or less all the time. Whether they do so or not is another thing. However, I think you are going too extreme the other way here with your assumptions. Why is the combat analogy that the expert fighter kills the opponent? It would seem to me that if you are going to extend the analogy from skills more faithfully, it would be that the expert fighter doesn't have to roll to hit. He hits, and combat goes on from there. Of course, bare bones, that is boring. So what I was aluding to with special moves is something akin to what Lost Soul gave a great example of. I was thinking that the fighter hits automatically for basic damage, but then has to roll for whatever the special is. Now, with skills, I also agree that the problem is that they are binary. But the binary problem is not in the comparison of success, it is the granularity of what success means. So yeah, if we are going to keep all current assumptions in such a system, such that, "expert thief automatically solves all expert perception problems," then no, I'm not for that. I'd like some expert perception problems to require multiple successes. Those are the ones worth fiddling with. One of the reasons that people tend to collapse the skill checks down into binary decisions--whether rolled for, given by fiat or passive abilities, or through player choices--is that the skill roll sitting there creates the illusion that something is happening. And at the same time, the busy work of the d20 roll feeds back into this illusion, while simultaneously encouraging us not to complicate the system more. I'd like for the system to be a bit more involved, and I know it won't be with a bunch of d20 busy work rolls. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /></blockquote>

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