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<blockquote data-quote="I'm A Banana" data-source="post: 5696333" data-attributes="member: 2067">For me, part of the fun of the game is when an unoptimized character has to do something to contribute. For instance, that investigation? Like a combat, the &quot;dumb barbarian's&quot; turn comes up, and he has to do something to try and contribute to success, or else he's got an automatic failure. His presence in the party matters, for good or ill (and it's likely to be for ill). This encourages a balanced party setup, so that however horrible that barbarian is, the rest of the party needs to be good enough to compensate. Because occasionally, investigation is something the party will have to do (just like combat, or social interaction, or exploration). Giving the barbarian space in which to fall flat on his face gives the Bard's player or the Rogue's player a chance to appreciate his character's skill in that situation -- it gives them a chance to shine. It's also one of those &quot;fun to fail&quot; situations - a dumb barbarian stumbling over himself in an investigation is highly entertaining, even if he fails miserably. It can be EVEN MORE FUN if he succeeds unexpectedly!It's certainly a lot more fun than if the barbarian's player goes and plays Xbox for half an hour while the rest of the party does an investigation.There's a difference in playstyle, too, where some players don't mind watching others go about their thing. Others tune out and say, &quot;Call me when its over.&quot; You can't force those latter players to pay attention, and you can't just say &quot;THEY ARE HORRIBLE PEOPLE!&quot; You should engage those players. They have every reason to expect that a game will be something that they can play, rather than something they can spectate at for half an hour. They can watch TV and be a spectator.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="I'm A Banana, post: 5696333, member: 2067"] For me, part of the fun of the game is when an unoptimized character [B]has[/B] to do something to contribute. For instance, that investigation? Like a combat, the "dumb barbarian's" turn comes up, and he has to do something to try and contribute to success, or else he's got an automatic failure. His presence in the party matters, for good or ill (and it's likely to be for ill). This encourages a balanced party setup, so that however horrible that barbarian is, the rest of the party needs to be good enough to compensate. Because occasionally, investigation is something the party will have to do (just like combat, or social interaction, or exploration). Giving the barbarian space in which to fall flat on his face gives the Bard's player or the Rogue's player a chance to appreciate his character's skill in that situation -- it gives them a chance to shine. It's also one of those "fun to fail" situations - a dumb barbarian stumbling over himself in an investigation is highly entertaining, even if he fails miserably. It can be EVEN MORE FUN if he succeeds unexpectedly! It's certainly a lot more fun than if the barbarian's player goes and plays Xbox for half an hour while the rest of the party does an investigation. There's a difference in playstyle, too, where some players don't mind watching others go about their thing. Others tune out and say, "Call me when its over." You can't force those latter players to pay attention, and you can't just say "THEY ARE HORRIBLE PEOPLE!" You should engage those players. They have every reason to expect that a game will be something that they can play, rather than something they can spectate at for half an hour. They can watch TV and be a spectator. [/QUOTE]

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