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<blockquote data-quote="Kerrick" data-source="post: 4543295" data-attributes="member: 4722">Here, I've copied the grapple rules from the Beta:Of particular note is the part I bolded. Since Monte is working for/advising the PF crew, it's little surprise that he posted his new grapple rule on LiveJournal; he probably came up with it for the Beta.I was going to say that I didn't think dropping the BAB was a good idea, but then I thought about it... a high-level fighter, despite probably being a good grappler, is still only a human. He may be strong and experienced, but he still has a huge size disadvantage against, say, an ogre or a giant. Now, I use the CMB, but I dropped the DC to 10 + target's CMB, but let's try grappling without the BABs:Let's say Bob the fighter wants to wrestle Grok the ogre in the arena. Bob's a 10th level fighter, and a hefty guy with the Improved Grapple feat; he's got 17 Str. Grok's a more or less normal specimen for his type - he has Str 21. Their CMBs would be:Bob: +7;Grok: +6.(Note: If we use the PF version of Imp. Grapple, Bob's bonus would only be +5.)If we used the version with BABs, Bob would have CMB +17 (or +15) - he'd tear that ogre apart.On reflection, I like this rule - it makes grappling more realistic. I played judo in college; I'm not a large guy (5'9&quot;), but in practice, our coach made us work against everyone, regardless of size, so that we could get a broader range of experience. We had a guy on the team who was 6'6&quot; and 290 pounds; let me just say that was nearly impossible for me to pin him because of the size/strength difference, no matter that I was a lot more experienced.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Kerrick, post: 4543295, member: 4722"] Here, I've copied the grapple rules from the Beta: Of particular note is the part I bolded. Since Monte is working for/advising the PF crew, it's little surprise that he posted his new grapple rule on LiveJournal; he probably came up with it for the Beta. I was going to say that I didn't think dropping the BAB was a good idea, but then I thought about it... a high-level fighter, despite probably being a good grappler, is still only a human. He may be strong and experienced, but he still has a huge size disadvantage against, say, an ogre or a giant. Now, I use the CMB, but I dropped the DC to 10 + target's CMB, but let's try grappling without the BABs: Let's say Bob the fighter wants to wrestle Grok the ogre in the arena. Bob's a 10th level fighter, and a hefty guy with the Improved Grapple feat; he's got 17 Str. Grok's a more or less normal specimen for his type - he has Str 21. Their CMBs would be: Bob: +7; Grok: +6. (Note: If we use the PF version of Imp. Grapple, Bob's bonus would only be +5.) If we used the version with BABs, Bob would have CMB +17 (or +15) - he'd tear that ogre apart. On reflection, I like this rule - it makes grappling more realistic. I played judo in college; I'm not a large guy (5'9"), but in practice, our coach made us work against everyone, regardless of size, so that we could get a broader range of experience. We had a guy on the team who was 6'6" and 290 pounds; let me just say that was nearly impossible for me to pin him because of the size/strength difference, no matter that I was a lot more experienced. [/QUOTE]

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