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<blockquote data-quote="Kerrick" data-source="post: 4544829" data-attributes="member: 4722">I would try pairing up two things with a huge size difference, too - say, dragon (Huge or larger) and housecat (Tiny) or fairy (Diminutive) and see how the modifiers balance out.It's not really a &quot;take 10&quot; version; 10 is the base for every other DC in the system, so it made sense to move the grapple check to 10 too (that, and people complained that it was too high at 15).The problem with this is you have to remember two numbers - attack and defense. Simpler is better; in this case, having one number for both checks.If we take Bob and Grok and use the 3.5 rules (inc. the IG feat), Bob's bonus would be +17 for attack and +7 for defense; Grok's would be +12 for attack and +9 for defense. Which means, basically, that Bob will generally win if he initiates the grapple, but Grok has a slightly better chance of breaking free.Here's the Imp. Grapple feat, PF style:Effectively, you gain a +2 bonus to CMB and don't provoke AoOs when initiating a grapple.Because as any wrestler will tell you, you wouldn't be a very good grappler if you couldn't get out of other people's holds as well as put them on. BAB represents training, and all grapplers are trained to escape and reverse holds/pins too. Using BAB for defense makes eminent sense both for this reason and the one I stated above. You could start using a different system for defense, but it would have a very good chance of overcomplicating grappling even further.You could just grant a +1 bonus per 5 ranks. This makes sense and isn't game-breaking.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Kerrick, post: 4544829, member: 4722"] I would try pairing up two things with a huge size difference, too - say, dragon (Huge or larger) and housecat (Tiny) or fairy (Diminutive) and see how the modifiers balance out. It's not really a "take 10" version; 10 is the base for every other DC in the system, so it made sense to move the grapple check to 10 too (that, and people complained that it was too high at 15). The problem with this is you have to remember two numbers - attack and defense. Simpler is better; in this case, having one number for both checks. If we take Bob and Grok and use the 3.5 rules (inc. the IG feat), Bob's bonus would be +17 for attack and +7 for defense; Grok's would be +12 for attack and +9 for defense. Which means, basically, that Bob will generally win if he initiates the grapple, but Grok has a slightly better chance of breaking free. Here's the Imp. Grapple feat, PF style: Effectively, you gain a +2 bonus to CMB and don't provoke AoOs when initiating a grapple. Because as any wrestler will tell you, you wouldn't be a very good grappler if you couldn't get out of other people's holds as well as put them on. BAB represents training, and all grapplers are trained to escape and reverse holds/pins too. Using BAB for defense makes eminent sense both for this reason and the one I stated above. You [i]could[/i] start using a different system for defense, but it would have a very good chance of overcomplicating grappling even further. You could just grant a +1 bonus per 5 ranks. This makes sense and isn't game-breaking. [/QUOTE]

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