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Message: <blockquote data-quote="NewJeffCT" data-source="post: 5872583" data-attributes="member: 10784">I read the first two pages of this thread and then this last page, so forgive me if I repeat anything here.I think Raise Dead/Resurrection should be allowed, but it should be a rare occurrence.  The problem with both now in 4E and 3.5E before it was that it's too easy to use, and it's also accessible by too low level a cleric.To illustrate my point:When WotC released 3E, they said that their surveys indicated that in 1e/2e, most campaigns ran from level 1 to somewhere around level 9 or 10 at the end.  That means, that Raise Dead was something that a PC could cast only at the very end of a campaign when he or she was at level 9.  Resurrection was something that was normally beyond the means of the PCs, since it was a level 7 spell, thus you'd need to be level 13 to cast it.  So, you'd need to have access to a powerful NPC to get a Resurrection done.  And, even Raise Dead was something that you'd only do at the very end of a long campaign.However, when 3E came out, Raise Dead was still accessible to the PCs when they got to level 9.  However, the campaigns were now designed to go from level 1 to level 20.  So, you could now access Raise Dead less than halfway through a campaign.  The spell lost its wonder because it was something a middle level cleric could now cast.  (however, if you disallow Raise Dead & Resurrection, you're nerfing the cleric)Then, with 4E, Raise Dead was cheapened even further.  It was now a level 8 ritual, and campaigns were now designed to from level 1-30.  So, you could now cast Raise Dead only 27% of the way through a campaign - heck, you're still in the bottom tier of adventurers and you're raising the dead.During my 2 1/2 year long 3.5e campaign, my players used Revivify at least once a combat once they had access to it (Brings a player back from Death before the soul fully departs from the body if cast within 1 round of death... or more of augmented with the psionic version of it).  However, the actual casting of Raise Dead or Resurrection was rare.  In fact, I think I only recall one actual PC resurrection in the game - and that was in the last combat where the PC cleric cast a 5,000xp Miracle to bring the fallen dwarf fighter back from the dead after he got hit with Implosion, and shockingly, failed his FORT save.The problem isn't Raise Dead & Resurrection in and of itself, the problem is accessibility.  Raise Dead shouldn't be something a just out of the gate adventurer can cast.  It should only be used by the most powerful practitioners of divine magic - thus, the PCs can use it only at the end of a campaign.  Revivify is only mostly dead, so I think access to something similar is okay somewhat earlier - but, even that should be later on in a campaign as well.</blockquote>

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