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General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Monter Manual II CR issues (was MM 2 errata in progress?)
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<blockquote data-quote="clark411" data-source="post: 399362" data-attributes="member: 4768"><p>Using Wizard's CR calc (avg hp divided by 4.5 + SQ's and SA's all over 3) we get:</p><p></p><p>(30 / 4.5 + 8) / 3... which comes to 4.8, which they opted to round downwards to CR 4 rather than up to CR 5 (given some of the indirect benefits of some of the abilities). Or perhaps even playtested.</p><p></p><p>I'd argue that an Asperi is worthy of its CR. Perhaps not as say, a paladin's mount, but rather as described in the MM2. Firstly, the MM's present the weakest of the race, and the most weakminded Asperi is more intelligent than your average PC race is. This allows the use of tactics. While a Purple Worm may just shoot out of the ground and attempt to swallow people while they stab them to death, an Asperi or four.. or twenty, will not be as idiotic.</p><p></p><p>The CR accounts for its territory (mountains) and the combination of its intelligence, it's telepathy, and it's feats. Unlike a Pegasus or Griffon, Asperi have flyby attack- meaning unlike the first two, the former will not experience "Land, bite, get ganked" issues from your average party. Instead, it can do as suggested in the flavor text- use it's mobility to choose where to fight, it's brains to choose when to fight and it's feats to choose how to fight. It can use it's natural environment against it's opponents as suggested by it's preference of attacking opponents by crevasses and cliffs. Furthermore, it's totally immune to it's own environment and suffers no weaknesses due to it's mobility. While a griffon will plummet from the sky (where it's completely ineffectual during combat) and drop to it's death, an Asperi will not.</p><p></p><p>I'd argue that an Asperi is as difficult an encounter as it's CR suggests. Is it easy to drop? Yes, if it does not fight to it's fullest potential. Will it drain 20% of a 4th level party's resources? I don't know- perhaps we should ask the party cleric, who as the fight ends is plummeting down the side of a 6,000 ft rockface following hit-and-run bull rush maneuvers by a lone Asperi who knows you're poaching for it's young.</p><p></p><p></p><p>However, just looking at it's stats, yeah. It is pretty weak for it's CR, but the same can be said for a good number of creatures in the MM and MM 2 when you don't take into account other variables. Your average Purple Worm, coming at you overland, is not nearly as much of a threat as when it appears under you- preferably biting a player in the suprise round. Your average devil isn't quite as tough when not encountered in Baator. On the other hand, your average Purple Worm is Much Much harder when it's using inappropriate combat tactics, given it's Int of 1.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="clark411, post: 399362, member: 4768"] Using Wizard's CR calc (avg hp divided by 4.5 + SQ's and SA's all over 3) we get: (30 / 4.5 + 8) / 3... which comes to 4.8, which they opted to round downwards to CR 4 rather than up to CR 5 (given some of the indirect benefits of some of the abilities). Or perhaps even playtested. I'd argue that an Asperi is worthy of its CR. Perhaps not as say, a paladin's mount, but rather as described in the MM2. Firstly, the MM's present the weakest of the race, and the most weakminded Asperi is more intelligent than your average PC race is. This allows the use of tactics. While a Purple Worm may just shoot out of the ground and attempt to swallow people while they stab them to death, an Asperi or four.. or twenty, will not be as idiotic. The CR accounts for its territory (mountains) and the combination of its intelligence, it's telepathy, and it's feats. Unlike a Pegasus or Griffon, Asperi have flyby attack- meaning unlike the first two, the former will not experience "Land, bite, get ganked" issues from your average party. Instead, it can do as suggested in the flavor text- use it's mobility to choose where to fight, it's brains to choose when to fight and it's feats to choose how to fight. It can use it's natural environment against it's opponents as suggested by it's preference of attacking opponents by crevasses and cliffs. Furthermore, it's totally immune to it's own environment and suffers no weaknesses due to it's mobility. While a griffon will plummet from the sky (where it's completely ineffectual during combat) and drop to it's death, an Asperi will not. I'd argue that an Asperi is as difficult an encounter as it's CR suggests. Is it easy to drop? Yes, if it does not fight to it's fullest potential. Will it drain 20% of a 4th level party's resources? I don't know- perhaps we should ask the party cleric, who as the fight ends is plummeting down the side of a 6,000 ft rockface following hit-and-run bull rush maneuvers by a lone Asperi who knows you're poaching for it's young. However, just looking at it's stats, yeah. It is pretty weak for it's CR, but the same can be said for a good number of creatures in the MM and MM 2 when you don't take into account other variables. Your average Purple Worm, coming at you overland, is not nearly as much of a threat as when it appears under you- preferably biting a player in the suprise round. Your average devil isn't quite as tough when not encountered in Baator. On the other hand, your average Purple Worm is Much Much harder when it's using inappropriate combat tactics, given it's Int of 1. [/QUOTE]
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