Monte's Sorceror and Bard?
- Thread starter Dremen
- Start date
The Bard seems less like an amalgamation of the Rogue and PH Sorcerer and more like its own class. Instead of arcane spells, the variant Bard performs spellsongs. There are three levels of spellsongs: Notes, Chords, and Melodies. Notes are similar to 1st and 2nd level spells, Chords are similar to 3rd and 4th level spells, and Melodies are similar to 5th and 6th level spells. While most (if not all) Notes and Chords take one action to cast, most (if not all) Melodies require a full-round action.
The Sorcerer is more like its own class. His variant Sorcerer has its own list of spells, with some having different levels (haste, for example, is offered at 4th rather than 3rd level). Some spells that are available to the Sorcerer PH class are not available to the variant Sorcerer... I'm not sure about vice-versa (don't have the book handy). Additionally (and this is the best adjustment IMO), the Sorcerer does not need material components since his body is the component. When there is a physical component that has some kind of cost, the variant Sorcerer pays xp to cast the spell.
I think both classes also have better skill points and slightly different attack bonuses or save progression (or both)...
Both of these variants can be found in the Book of Eldritch Might II, an excellent addition to any d20 collection.
The Sorcerer is more like its own class. His variant Sorcerer has its own list of spells, with some having different levels (haste, for example, is offered at 4th rather than 3rd level). Some spells that are available to the Sorcerer PH class are not available to the variant Sorcerer... I'm not sure about vice-versa (don't have the book handy). Additionally (and this is the best adjustment IMO), the Sorcerer does not need material components since his body is the component. When there is a physical component that has some kind of cost, the variant Sorcerer pays xp to cast the spell.
I think both classes also have better skill points and slightly different attack bonuses or save progression (or both)...
Both of these variants can be found in the Book of Eldritch Might II, an excellent addition to any d20 collection.
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Jeremy Ackerman-Yost
Explorer
They're both in Book of Eldritch Might II. I'm answering from memory, so you might want to take this with a grain of salt...
The Sorceror has minor mechanical changes that lead to a more interesting flavor, IMO. Spell list is shortened. Lots of BLAM and WHAMMO effects. Less subtle stuff. Gives more of an actual casting on the fly, look-at-me-and-my-nifty-spells feel. It's also nice because it makes the wizard the go to guy for utility. He's the brains, it makes sense he'd have really complicated spells that sorcerors can't intuitively reproduce. But fireball? Oh, they can do that intuitively. Lots. Made some other changes (increased hit die and skills ? I think) to balance with the versatility loss.
Bard is very different mechanically. Spell system based on music of three complexity levels, rising in power along with complexity: Spell notes, spell chords, spell melodies. Or something like that. Overall, I think the magical power of this bard is much more flavorful, if a little bit weaker. I don't remember if he adjusted anything else about the Bard.
Of course, I haven't played with either, so these impressions are entirely from looking at them on paper.
EDIT: Serge beat me to it, AND he remebered the sorceror doesn't need material components, which I think is pretty good. I never thought a caster whose power comes from within should need material components.
The Sorceror has minor mechanical changes that lead to a more interesting flavor, IMO. Spell list is shortened. Lots of BLAM and WHAMMO effects. Less subtle stuff. Gives more of an actual casting on the fly, look-at-me-and-my-nifty-spells feel. It's also nice because it makes the wizard the go to guy for utility. He's the brains, it makes sense he'd have really complicated spells that sorcerors can't intuitively reproduce. But fireball? Oh, they can do that intuitively. Lots. Made some other changes (increased hit die and skills ? I think) to balance with the versatility loss.
Bard is very different mechanically. Spell system based on music of three complexity levels, rising in power along with complexity: Spell notes, spell chords, spell melodies. Or something like that. Overall, I think the magical power of this bard is much more flavorful, if a little bit weaker. I don't remember if he adjusted anything else about the Bard.
Of course, I haven't played with either, so these impressions are entirely from looking at them on paper.
EDIT: Serge beat me to it, AND he remebered the sorceror doesn't need material components, which I think is pretty good. I never thought a caster whose power comes from within should need material components.
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Chun-tzu
First Post
Buttercup said:
I can't imagine any power gamer would choose Monte's sorcerer over the PHB one. Your spell selection is much more limited, and some key spells (the kind a power gamer can't get enough of) are now a full level higher. So while a wizard gets Haste at level 5, Monte's sorcerer has to wait until level 8.
Monte's sorcerer has some nice advantages over the PHB one: extra hit points, a few more skills and skill points, and no need for material components. But the question is, are these worth the hit you take in spell power? Probably not. Most spellcasters use their feats to enhance their spellcasting ability, not to enhance their hit points or skills.
That said, I love the changes, as they make the wizard and sorcerer more distinct from each other.
Destil
Explorer
The sorcerer in MoEM2 is much more of a Magic-Using Fighter, in my opinion. It's focused on blasting things to peices, and the more utalatirian spells are generly a level higher.
The bard has a smaller spell selection, but is almost as flexible as a fully point-based spell-caster, being able to weave notes into a chord and chords into a melody. There are feats that let him increase the Save DC, Range, Duration and similar with a preform roll, rather than increasing the level. Spell-notes are also only move-equivelent actions to cast, and thus he can throw out two a round without haste, even at 1st level. Very useful, thought the're somwhere between cantrips and 1st level spells in power. Finaly he ignores arcane spell failure if it's less than 15% or so. All in all a far more flavorful and unique class, though you'll need to do some conversion work if one of your favriote spells isn't already represent in spell note / chord / meloidy form (modify memory, for instance, is absent)
The bard has a smaller spell selection, but is almost as flexible as a fully point-based spell-caster, being able to weave notes into a chord and chords into a melody. There are feats that let him increase the Save DC, Range, Duration and similar with a preform roll, rather than increasing the level. Spell-notes are also only move-equivelent actions to cast, and thus he can throw out two a round without haste, even at 1st level. Very useful, thought the're somwhere between cantrips and 1st level spells in power. Finaly he ignores arcane spell failure if it's less than 15% or so. All in all a far more flavorful and unique class, though you'll need to do some conversion work if one of your favriote spells isn't already represent in spell note / chord / meloidy form (modify memory, for instance, is absent)
John Crichton
First Post
I have had both the variants used in my campaigns. The person playing the Bard loved the changes (who wouldn't?) and the person playing the sorcerer likes it as well. Keep in mind that we have used the PHB versions of both classes.Chun-tzu said:
The sorcerer is a little more hardy and fits the character with great personal magnitude and power to match feel very well. As someone mentioned, this does make it feel like more of a "magic using fighter" in reguards to combat but that's what the class was designed for IMHO. I always saw the sorcerer as more an athletic type (hence, more HP) than the wizard who spends most of his time indoors.
And as far as the variant spell list goes: You really aren't losing that much for having a few non-damage/quick spells come later at later levels. I think that if you want more diverse spells, just play a wizard.
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