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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Mustrum_Ridcully" data-source="post: 3884462" data-attributes="member: 710">I think we had some discussion about the concepts in other threads, but to reiterate some points: Bonus to attacks and saves increase very fast with level and CR in 3rd edition. If you want a normally challenging encounter with 8 mooks, they would need to be 6 CRs below that of the characters. But with that difference, they have little chance to save against the PCs abilities(which becomes particularly nasty with spells that affect multiple opponents), and they have a very low chance of hitting a PC. The mook spells will be ineffective (often saved against and possible dealing little damage). Such a combat might work occasionally (tho let the PCs show off), but it's not exciting in the long run, since the PCs simply aren't hurt. In the reverse situation, in "boss" encounters, the boss usually suffers from having to few actions, and any attack that limits or reduces his actions are immensely effective. The PCs, on the other hand, can rarely use their own abilities effectively, as their attack bonus is comparatively low to the monsters AC, and their spell save Dcs are low compared to the enemies saving throws. The design goal in 4th edition seems to be to compensate on both ends: monsters have a level which probably indicates things like attacks and defenses, but depending wether the monster is a minion, a regular monster, an elite monster or a boss monster, it will have different (reactive) attack options, damage and hitpoints. A secondary goal here is probably also to stabilize the complexity of the encounter. (Imagine a party of 15th level characters engaging 4 9th level Clerics and 4 9th level Wizards, compared to them engaging a single CR 15 Outsider or Dragon). A "boss" monster will have a lot of complex abilities, but it's not more than an XP-equivalent mook encounter.I think there was also a few posts regarding to "the sweet spot", indicating that usually, a success rate of ~70% feels satisfying for players (regardless of game type). A lot More, it feels to easy, a lot less, it is too difficult. That was approximately the region of the levels associated with the "sweet spot". Minions, Regular, Elite and Boss monsters of equal level but different XP value are probably their method to get to these rates.</blockquote>

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