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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Alaxk Knight of Galt" data-source="post: 3885906" data-attributes="member: 4129">Wyz, I brought up the 7th Sea example to show how that system handles multiple minor threats to the Heroes/Party.  By breaking the group of twenty into groups of 5, you now have to roll only 4 attacks and base their damage off of remaining group size.  You lose some of the precise tactical miniature combat, but you pick up style points  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f60e.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":cool:" title="Cool    :cool:"  data-smilie="6"data-shortname=":cool:" /> Of course, that's assuming WotC goes this way.  The could very easily expect you to roll for 20 guys.  (Break out the dice bag, your going to need it  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" /> )  Slight Rant WarningAt the moment, DnD is basically a miniature combat game with role playing wrapped around it.  The rules for social interaction are very light and typically come down to an opposed roll.  The vast majority of the rules are for resolving combat interactions.  Playing 3.X without a combat grid is tough for the system as precise placement of spells, precise placement of characters, AoO, movement based characters, and movement dependent actions are critical for 3.X to properly determine what has occurred.Because the rules demand combat precision, its very difficult or just very time consuming to run large encounters.  The rules want each of the 20 member drow warparty to be physically represented on the combat grid and have their actions independently resolved.  When 3.0 first came out, I was absolutely in love with the combat rules.  Its exactly what I wanted.  The precision of it appealed to me and I thought abstract combat was a sin against nature.As I've aged, I've found myself wanting different things from my games.  Abstract combat interest me more for RPG games.  I don't need to know if I'm exactly 15 or 20 feet from the dragon to enjoy my well place arrow or a devastating lightning bolt.  If the cinematic elements of the fight dictate that the knight be able to reach his fallen comrade to fend off the savages trying to kill him, great, that's the way I want it.  I don't need to think that the knight is actually carrying 120lbs of equipment instead of 110lbs of equipment and is thus can only move 20 feat instead of 30.  What's heroic or interesting about micro-managing your character.  Let the story rule, not the numbers.  Save your minis, your combat grids, your fireball templates, your hours-long combat, and your precision for tabletop miniature games like Warhammer.  Give me the theater of the mind for RPGs.------------------------------------Perhaps I am no longer the target audience for 4e.   <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f641.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":(" title="Frown    :("  data-smilie="3"data-shortname=":(" /></blockquote>

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