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<blockquote data-quote="Clint_L" data-source="post: 9248771" data-attributes="member: 7035894">A bear makes two attacks, not three (1 claw, 1 bite). And your 2024 druid is not particularly &quot;tanky&quot; unless they stand there and spend all their spell slots on healing (in your example, you have them casting cure wounds, which is using up all their actions for 6 rounds). A cleric could do that with fewer HP to start but a higher AC. A holy cleric in heavy armour and shield, for example, would be more durable than your druid in this example. Are they OP, too?Bottom line: 9 temporary HP and 16 AC is not that great.2024 monk easily beats that: AC 16 and eliminates basically 1 hit per round through deflect attack, while doing 1d8+3+1d6+3. If they need to, they can force all attacks to be at disadvantage while still attacking (and doing FoB if they want) through the bonus attack.For example, against your knight the monk comes out far ahead of the 2024 druid. Because the monk actually kills the knight while taking almost no damage.It's really not, when you start doing the math with other classes. For standing there and taking a beating it's competitive, but only if it's spending all its resources on healing itself. That's not going to take it very far at level 3.The 2014 version is way better - it is getting offence in that whole time while having better survivability. I mean, if you are just going to stand there and heal with your actions, the 2014 druid can do that too, once it's out of wild shapes. But in the meantime, it has wrecked face as a bear.2024 does scale a bit better but the current proposal still sucks. For example, one way it scales is by giving the druid a bonus to damage from each attack...but all higher CR forms only have one attack.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Clint_L, post: 9248771, member: 7035894"] A bear makes two attacks, not three (1 claw, 1 bite). And your 2024 druid is not particularly "tanky" unless they stand there and spend all their spell slots on healing (in your example, you have them casting cure wounds, which is using up all their actions for 6 rounds). A cleric could do that with fewer HP to start but a higher AC. A holy cleric in heavy armour and shield, for example, would be more durable than your druid in this example. Are they OP, too? Bottom line: 9 temporary HP and 16 AC is not that great. 2024 monk easily beats that: AC 16 and eliminates basically 1 hit per round through deflect attack, while doing 1d8+3+1d6+3. If they need to, they can force all attacks to be at disadvantage while still attacking (and doing FoB if they want) through the bonus attack. For example, against your knight the monk comes out far ahead of the 2024 druid. Because the monk actually kills the knight while taking almost no damage. It's really not, when you start doing the math with other classes. For standing there and taking a beating it's competitive, but only if it's spending all its resources on healing itself. That's not going to take it very far at level 3. The 2014 version is way better - it is getting offence in that whole time while having better survivability. I mean, if you are just going to stand there and heal with your actions, the 2014 druid can do that too, once it's out of wild shapes. But in the meantime, it has wrecked face as a bear. 2024 does scale a bit better but the current proposal still sucks. For example, one way it scales is by giving the druid a bonus to damage from each attack...but all higher CR forms only have one attack. [/QUOTE]

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