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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Clint_L" data-source="post: 9249949" data-attributes="member: 7035894">I ignore the "adventuring day" guideline as I think it's meaningless; there is absolutely no consistency in how games are actually played. What matters is how classes compare to each other.And I strongly disagree that "overcoats of temp hit points" (which is an oversimplified way to describe wild shape) are an inherent problem. To the contrary, I think they offer a different approach to tanking that is tactically interesting. The current 2024 proposal basically just tries to turn the moon druid into a fighter by giving an actual temp HP adjustment and buff to AC. It's boring.Tanking has a few components. The main one is survivability, but generating threat and protecting allies are important as well.In terms of survivability, there are several different approaches:Avoidance: using some combination of armour and mobility to avoid taking the damage in the first place. In D&D this is usually passive and comes from AC or abilities like dodge and evasion.Soaking: using HP like a sponge. This is the current model for low level moon druids: low AC, high HP. Again, passive.Resistance: the barbarian model. Relatively low AC but damage is reduced. Functionally similar to soaking, depending on how the resistances are distributed. Again, passive. In many ways, barbarian and moon druid tanking is comparable.Mitigation: reducing the incoming damage through active choices that use resources. Second wind, lay on hands, healing spells, and deflect attack are typical methods.So if we look at a paladin, they have a great tanking chassis with high avoidance, decent soaking, and good mitigation, though with a significant resource cost. 2024 monks (at low levels) have poor soaking, average avoidance, but exceptional mitigation with a very low resource cost. Barbarians have high resistance and high soaking. Fighters have high avoidance, decent soaking, and limited mitigation. And moon druids have terrible avoidance, extraordinary soaking, and good mitigation with a significant resource cost.For generating threat and protecting allies, paladins are exceptional. Barbarians are good to excellent, depending on subclass. Fighters are also very good at generating threat; their ability to protect allies is generally mediocre and sub-class dependent. 2024 monks will be great at generating threat but poor at protecting allies. 2014 moon druids generate threat very well at low levels, poorly at higher levels, and are a good support class when they leave wild shape, which means they can't really help allies and tank at the same time.The current problem with moon druids is scaling. They are OP for a few levels, then UP for a bunch of levels, then arguably broken at level 20 by the druid capstone. This is true of both damage dealing and damage soaking. I think we are paying too much attention to them being OP for a few low levels; that's not the main problem, and addressing wider issues should address that as well, but again I emphasize that they are not going to be as OP as they were when 2024 rolls around because:1. A level 2-4 problem becomes a level 3-4 problem.2. Other classes are getting unquestionably buffed, some extensively.And I also don't like the current approach, which seems to be to use wild shape to turn them into kinda sorta fighters.</blockquote>

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