Moral Gray Areas...

[thedearhunter]

My campaign features the PC's mostly working for a powerful crime family. As such, they end up doing some rather bad things...all the time. I hadn't really considered the possibilty that it would be a problem, but i was thinking it might be one if someone wants to be a righteous paladin or something. You guys think this may have to be changed for that possibility? I'd rather not tell them what kind of character they can make.

 

[Doug McCrae]

I'd rather not tell them what kind of character they can make.

I think in this case you'll have to. Good guys, at least those that aren't 'morally flexible', aren't going to work. Lawfuls might be a problem also, though lawful can mean 'follows a code' or 'disciplined', rather than 'obeys the laws of the land'.

 

[Doug McCrae]

double post

 

[Grymar]

Yeah, I think you need to be upfront with them about the type of campaign it's going to be. If someone comes up with a paladin, a honor-obsessed knight, or a goody-goody cleric they will NOT have fun.

Give them a preview of the campaign, something dark and seedy.

A few short paragraphs about what happened to the last guy who had their job, or a scene from when they are first hired. Play up the fact that they aren't going to be good guys doing a lances-lowered charge against the forces of evil. Dirty cops, dirtier politicians, and a menacing mob.

Then again they may surprise you and try to turn the tables on the mob, taking them down from the inside.

 

[EP]

It's possible but the player will definitely need to get the heads up. We have two truly good devas (avenger and cleric of Bahamut) in our mercenary playtest group and they fit in just fine. The only trick is to give the devas their own motivation on top of the rest (e.g. mercs want the money/revenge, devas want to set things right). It really depends on the setting and what's been established before.

Playing a paladin's not as strict as it used to be and they're only bound by what YOU force on them. If you're willing to have a lawful good paladin lie and deceive his allies (as the infiltrating idea given above is a REALLY good one) without losing his powers or shifting his alignment, then why not? Undercover cops pretend to be bad guys all the time, but they're still cops.

The real trick is playing a paladin without the other players KNOWING he's a paladin...

 

[Thornir Alekeg]

Then again they may surprise you and try to turn the tables on the mob, taking them down from the inside.

This could be really cool, if all the players are working together. If only one player decides to play the mole, keeping it secret from the other players, eventually there will be inter-party conflict. While this can be fun in its own way, my experience is that it tends to bring a campaign to a sudden end.

Regardless I agree that you will need to set the tone for the players before character creation and might need to work with them to make sure the concepts work within the bounds of the campaign.

 

[amerigoV]

If only one player decides to play the mole, keeping it secret from the other players, eventually there will be inter-party conflict. While this can be fun in its own way, my experience is that it tends to bring a campaign to a sudden end.

Something like this came up around here not too long ago (mostly about players secret agenda). A grand idea I saw was for the PLAYER to be up front about it and count on the other players running their PCs correctly. Then the rest of the group gets to see an occassional "cutscene" of the good PC reporting, sabotaging certain missions, misinformation, and trying to hide the fact that he is on the other side. With a mature group of players, it could be quite fun and really enrich the game.

 

[fba827]

yeah, you should tell them up front (it doesn't need to be detailed, just a suggestion that "your PC should be okay with walking a moral grey area" OR tell them all that they should be good but will be playing the campaign as double agents or something and will need to be okay with doing things so as not to blow their cover too soon.)

if you don't get the players on the same page, you'll end up with a point where one or more PCs will want to or not want to do something that the others are okay with. Leading to a general divide which will get larger over time to the point where you will have difficulty finding justification to even keep the PCs together.

 

[Celebrim]

My campaign features the PC's mostly working for a powerful crime family. As such, they end up doing some rather bad things...all the time. I hadn't really considered the possibilty that it would be a problem, but i was thinking it might be one if someone wants to be a righteous paladin or something. You guys think this may have to be changed for that possibility? I'd rather not tell them what kind of character they can make.

Well, the first thing is that while your sentiment to not tell the players what kind of character they can make is admirable, in practice a DM needs to excercise judgment over allowing characters into the campaign and needs to properly heads up the players about what sort of characters they should be thinking of making.

"As such, they end up doing some rather bad things...all the time."

Err... what if they refuse? How do you know that they are going to be working for this crime family? How do you know what they are going to do before they do it? My suggestion when planning that sort of game is to recognize that the game can change at any point from the players working for X to, the players working against X. You need to have some contingency plans to handle this change.

You can't really be certain that any given party, including one without righteous paladins, is going to be happy doing 'rather bad things'. Alot of players will simply balk at being forced to do something which they personally in real live would never concieve of doing. It's not unusual for players to be unable to RP a PC which has a morality significantly at odds with their own, and few people are comfortable actively role-playing something that they find distasteful or disgusting.

I would therefore make the assumption that even if your party is a bunch of neutrals tending to evil, that eventually the moral ambiguity is going to present a challenge. It might not, you might have players that reveal in their bad selves, but assume the opposite to be on the safe side.

Personally, I find the campaign idea most interesting if the assumption of a PC ephinany and a change of loyalty is built in. That gives the players a very interesting story arc. I would also spend alot of time talking with the players about their character motivations to find out why they might want to work for a crime boss, and what might make them question that loyalty.

 

[Psychotic Jim]

I don't really have any ideal solution for you, but here are a few random thoughts on the subject. You know the players more than any posters here, so you’ll have the best idea of how they will react to whatever choice of action you decide upon.

It seems like there is a situation here where you have to weigh the possibilities of two possibly adverse outcomes. On the one hand, there’s a possibility of being too restrictive on the players by telling them what/what not to play. On the other hand, there’s a possibility of the players becoming upset later by being forced into situations where they lose their powers or otherwise unfairly have their characters compromised.

The possible consequences of the latter will likely be worse if your game is pre-4e with the complications of likely permanent power loss for divine casters. Playing an ability-less paladin or cleric may be worse than not being able to play a fully powered paladin/cleric in the first place.

If the player(s) goes with the mole angle, I’d guess reading or perusing some materials on how undercover cops or spies deal with situations actions they find reprehensible might help.

It seems like you are concerned about letting players play what they want to. What would you think if you were to speak with them about what might be easier and what might be harder to play in the campaign?