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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 5107813" data-attributes="member: 4937">I suspect based on past conversations with you that we won't be able to come to agreement on this.I'm not familiar with WoD's current morality system, but I use to play (and sometimes judge) on alot of the old WoD inspired MU*'s and I can say that from the perspective of a game master/judge a morality system that is relative to the character is useless in a game.&nbsp; Under the old WoD, morality (humanity, etc.) varied wildly across game systems (VtM, WtA, Changling, etc.) and sometimes wildly within a game system (Camarilla vs. Sabbat, for example).&nbsp; When you tried to run a setting in which the different groups interfaced, there was no way to translate between the two.&nbsp; And, if you let each idea stand on its own, then in practice it never had any bearing on the game (at least, no enforcable bearing) because when everyone defined their own morality in practice everyone was perfectly moral by default.&nbsp; No one ever had to make hard choices or ever found themselves faced with moral delemmas because those delemmas had essentially been resolved at character creation and all that was left was to play the character out.&nbsp; The morality system in practice put no constraint on the character or player, and as such could be all but completely ignored.If sense then WoD has adopted a more univeral morality system, I strongly suspect it was based on input they recieved from actually playing with relative systems.Personally, for D20 I'm a fan of the Ravenloft system(s).&nbsp; I'd probably tweak it a little if I ran it, but I wouldn't feel like it ought to be tweaked if I was a player because the basic system(s) are so strong as they are.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 5107813, member: 4937"] I suspect based on past conversations with you that we won't be able to come to agreement on this. I'm not familiar with WoD's current morality system, but I use to play (and sometimes judge) on alot of the old WoD inspired MU*'s and I can say that from the perspective of a game master/judge a morality system that is relative to the character is useless in a game. Under the old WoD, morality (humanity, etc.) varied wildly across game systems (VtM, WtA, Changling, etc.) and sometimes wildly within a game system (Camarilla vs. Sabbat, for example). When you tried to run a setting in which the different groups interfaced, there was no way to translate between the two. And, if you let each idea stand on its own, then in practice it never had any bearing on the game (at least, no enforcable bearing) because when everyone defined their own morality in practice everyone was perfectly moral by default. No one ever had to make hard choices or ever found themselves faced with moral delemmas because those delemmas had essentially been resolved at character creation and all that was left was to play the character out. The morality system in practice put no constraint on the character or player, and as such could be all but completely ignored. If sense then WoD has adopted a more univeral morality system, I strongly suspect it was based on input they recieved from actually playing with relative systems. Personally, for D20 I'm a fan of the Ravenloft system(s). I'd probably tweak it a little if I ran it, but I wouldn't feel like it ought to be tweaked if I was a player because the basic system(s) are so strong as they are. [/QUOTE]

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