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Message: <blockquote data-quote="John Morrow" data-source="post: 1922875" data-attributes="member: 27012">While I, too, like the idea that when a paladin sees Evil, they can kill it, the concepts of redemption and free will as well as the whole nature vs. nurture debate complicate things.  It's hard to strike down a foe that is willing to repent and turn to the Good side and difficult to hate orcs as a race if the only reason they are Evil is because they've had a bad upbringing.The way I have gotten around this problem in my current D&D game is to add an additional axis of sorts to alignment.  There are creatures that are Good or Evil as a matter of nature, there are creatures that are Good or Evil as a matter of both nature and nurture (meaning that they are strongly inclined to be of a certain alignment but can be trained otherwise in some cases), and there are creatures who are Good or Evil by choice (the free moral agents).  This means limiting alignments more strictly than what's implied in the monster books for the "nature" creatures in most cases.A paladin's obligations concerning creatures in each of those categories are different, the way my setting works.  A paladin can destroy that Evil which is Evil by nature root and branch but must show mercy of varying degrees in the other cases.  My setting has both sorts so that I can have both simple and complicated moral decisions.  I can have my black and white and my gray, too, in varying degrees.Of course there is also an element of reincarnation in my game (though it is not universal and a person's consciousness doesn't normally transcend it) so killing a creature is, to some degree, tossing them into a recycling bin rather than tossing them into a fire.  The way you redeem a creature that is Evil by nature is that you kill it and hope that it's soul will come back in a creature that is not Evil by nature the next time around.On the other hand, Evil in my game (particularly that which is Evil by nature) has no sympathetic qualities, at least none that are sincere and will stand up to long-term scrutiny.  As I often put it, Evil is Evil.  They might pretend that they are lovable and friendly but they never are.  My Evil clerics are sadistic and will toss a woman's baby to a ghoul as a snack (and let her know about it so they can watch her reaction).  My Evil goblins abuse each other relentlessly and goblin mothers will sacrifice their own children to save themselves.  My demons are vengeful, twisted, and vain.  My devils are domineering, manipulative, and cruel.  And so on.  Learn who they really are and you won't like them.That doesn't meant that the players have never talked to an Evil character or cut a deal.  It's simply been a painful choice in ever case and the deals were made out of necessity, not because they liked the Evil creature (though one goblin did play act being pathetic enough to get the desired sympathy from some of the caracters).In many ways, I think of this quote when I think of Evil in my game:Listen, and understand! That Terminator is out there! It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are dead.That's pretty much what Evil by nature is in my game.  It can't be bargained with.  It can't be reasoned with.  It doesn't feel pity or remorse.  It only fears for itself.  And it will not stop until it has everything it wants and what it wants isn't pretty.  Evil by nature and nurture is a tough call.  Kill it if you must and spare it if you can.  Those who are free moral agents are like real world people and should be handled with as much mercy as possible, though killing in self defense or to save others (because your opponent is not then innocent) is always an option.</blockquote>

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