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<blockquote data-quote="Deset Gled" data-source="post: 9743633" data-attributes="member: 7808">Yes, my definition of mind control includes those things.You yourself used real world medical practices as a reference point for multiple posts, and came to the conclusion that intent and consent were the basis of whether something was a poison or a medicine.&nbsp; If the discussion about mind control is based on intent and consent, why does it matter if someone is brainwashed via a magic spell, a sci-fi virtual reality mental assault, or an injection of real chemicals and psychological conditioning?&nbsp; IMNSHO, not only is the discussion the same, but the crossover points are the most important ones to consider because they're the only parts that can be deconstructed with real world moral implications (those &quot;settled cultural and legal&quot; parts you mentioned, although I don't 100% agree about the &quot;settled&quot; bit).Calling things &quot;propaganda&quot; or &quot;indoctrination&quot; isn't really an argument one way or the other.&nbsp; It's just relabeling things, and doesn't mean they aren't just a different version of mind control.&nbsp; I consider them relevant examples.What type of examples are you looking for? There are many narcotics that could emulate a &quot;Calm Emotions&quot; spell.&nbsp; Basic enchantments like &quot;Sleep&quot; are even easier to replicate with drugs.&nbsp; <a href="https://www.mayoclinic.org/tests-procedures/deep-brain-stimulation/about/pac-20384562" target="_blank">Deep Brain Stimulation</a> is basically an implementation of mind control that would have been considered pure science fiction just a few decades ago.&nbsp; We're currently using it in experiments most people would call &quot;good&quot; for things like depression and OCD.&nbsp; But the same attempts at this through lobotomies and electro-shock therapy are considered pretty evil today (and it's arguable if/which people at the time were attempting to do good or not).</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Deset Gled, post: 9743633, member: 7808"] Yes, my definition of mind control includes those things. You yourself used real world medical practices as a reference point for multiple posts, and came to the conclusion that intent and consent were the basis of whether something was a poison or a medicine. If the discussion about mind control is based on intent and consent, why does it matter if someone is brainwashed via a magic spell, a sci-fi virtual reality mental assault, or an injection of real chemicals and psychological conditioning? IMNSHO, not only is the discussion the same, but the crossover points are the most important ones to consider because they're the only parts that can be deconstructed with real world moral implications (those "settled cultural and legal" parts you mentioned, although I don't 100% agree about the "settled" bit). Calling things "propaganda" or "indoctrination" isn't really an argument one way or the other. It's just relabeling things, and doesn't mean they aren't just a different version of mind control. I consider them relevant examples. What type of examples are you looking for? There are many narcotics that could emulate a "Calm Emotions" spell. Basic enchantments like "Sleep" are even easier to replicate with drugs. [URL='https://www.mayoclinic.org/tests-procedures/deep-brain-stimulation/about/pac-20384562']Deep Brain Stimulation[/URL] is basically an implementation of mind control that would have been considered pure science fiction just a few decades ago. We're currently using it in experiments most people would call "good" for things like depression and OCD. But the same attempts at this through lobotomies and electro-shock therapy are considered pretty evil today (and it's arguable if/which people at the time were attempting to do good or not). [/QUOTE]

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