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<blockquote data-quote="Kahuna Burger" data-source="post: 452570" data-attributes="member: 8439">hey, even a lot of people who don't like cats admit they have charisma - why else would we foolish cat lovers be so enamored with them. As Pratchett said &quot;if cats looked like frogs, we'd understand what viscious, nasty little creaturers they really are.&quot;on a more serious note, there needs to be a alternate rule for small or 'lithe' races to make dex the base stat for jump and climb (and maybe automatic weapon finesse). it would be easier than scaling the str stat to the understanding that if your body only weighs 7 lbs, a 4 str is much better than a 16 when your body weighs 250. (this is very hard to model, but the lack of some fix makes things simply break down when dealing with tiny and sometimes even small creatures)IMHO, the ecl system cannot be fairly applied across campaign types, character types and default level. At the very high levels abilities that would be worth an ecl early on are mimiced by common magic items and cheap buff spells. An ability that would be obscenely useful to a rogue is irrelevant to the player who wants a warrior member of that race. and a dm who sticks mass dimensional anchors on dungeons by sadistic default kinda cuts the usefulness of etheral or teleportation style abilities. (such DM also sucks in general, but its much worse when you have accepted a 7-8 level penalty for an ability which is then never able to be used).The non ranting point is that ECLs should be taken as a starting point for intelligently comparing the end character to others in that campaign setting.Kahuna Burger</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Kahuna Burger, post: 452570, member: 8439"] [B] [/B] hey, even a lot of people who don't like cats admit they have charisma - why else would we foolish cat lovers be so enamored with them. As Pratchett said "if cats looked like frogs, we'd understand what viscious, nasty little creaturers they really are." on a more serious note, there needs to be a alternate rule for small or 'lithe' races to make dex the base stat for jump and climb (and maybe automatic weapon finesse). it would be easier than scaling the str stat to the understanding that if your body only weighs 7 lbs, a 4 str is much better than a 16 when your body weighs 250. (this is very hard to model, but the lack of some fix makes things simply break down when dealing with tiny and sometimes even small creatures) IMHO, the ecl system cannot be fairly applied across campaign types, character types and default level. At the very high levels abilities that would be worth an ecl early on are mimiced by common magic items and cheap buff spells. An ability that would be obscenely useful to a rogue is irrelevant to the player who wants a warrior member of that race. and a dm who sticks mass dimensional anchors on dungeons by sadistic default kinda cuts the usefulness of etheral or teleportation style abilities. (such DM also sucks in general, but its much worse when you have accepted a 7-8 level penalty for an ability which is then never able to be used). The non ranting point is that ECLs should be taken as a starting point for intelligently comparing the end character to others in that campaign setting. Kahuna Burger [/QUOTE]

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