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<blockquote data-quote="BlackBart" data-source="post: 63455" data-attributes="member: 2232">I was hoping the Gamestoppers column would help me understand this more, but alas I'm more confused.Ok, this seems to make enough sense, conduct your grapple with a -20 penalty or suffer the normal consequences of being grappled.But once you get the hold, you are no longer considered grappled, so why bother with the -20 penalty, except to get your additional attacks?&nbsp; When does this happen?&nbsp; The normal rules for grappling have:Improved grab skips this step, moving right on to:This appears to be where the Improved Grab starts, at the Hold, however without the additional damage, excepting constrict.With Improved Grab, I pull you into my square, so this still holds true, somewhat.&nbsp; After that you are grappling.The long winded question, at what point would a creature with Improved Grab ever be considered grappling?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="BlackBart, post: 63455, member: 2232"] I was hoping the Gamestoppers column would help me understand this more, but alas I'm more confused. Ok, this seems to make enough sense, conduct your grapple with a -20 penalty or suffer the normal consequences of being grappled. But once you get the hold, you are no longer considered grappled, so why bother with the -20 penalty, except to get your additional attacks? When does this happen? The normal rules for grappling have: Improved grab skips this step, moving right on to: This appears to be where the Improved Grab starts, at the Hold, however without the additional damage, excepting constrict. With Improved Grab, I pull you into my square, so this still holds true, somewhat. After that you are grappling. The long winded question, at what point would a creature with Improved Grab ever be considered grappling? [/QUOTE]

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