More MnM questions (multiple Energy Blasts and TWF)...

[RigaMortus2]

Thanks for the replies from the other thread. I think I am pretty much getting it. I have a few more questions though.

Let's say I want the ability to shoot Fire and Ice from my fists. Well Energy Blast is the obvious choice. I have two ways I want to do this. This first is the ability to select which blast I want to project. So I can fire my Energy Blast (Fire) +10 at someone, and if I notice that they are Immune to the fire effect, next round I will choose to fire Energy Blast (Ice) +10. The way I would build this (please tell me if I am wrong) is to take Energy Blast (Fire) +10 and take Energy Blast (Ice) as a power stunt. The total cost would be 22 points. Correct?

Now let's say I want shoot a sort of "mixed" Energy Blast of both Fire and Cold at the same time, all in once attack. This way if someone is Immune to fire, they will still be affected if they are not Immune to Ice (or vice versa). I guess I would purchase Energy Blast (Fire) +10 and then as an extra purchase Energy Blast (Ice). This would bump up the cost of the power to 3pp/rank. So it would end up costing me 30pp total. Would this be the correct way to do this? What happens if someone is susceptible to both Fire and Ice. Would this attack do double damage? 10 from Fire and 10 from Ice? If not, is there a special way to create the energy blast so that it CAN do double damage from one shot?

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When I select the power Energy Blast, I assume that the power will fire from one of my fists (assuming I choose fist, vs. eyes, forehead, chest or whatever else you can choose). So I raise one of my fists and fire off an Energy Blast. What feats/stunts/extras do I need if I want to fire off two Energy Blasts? One from each fist? Will Two-Weapon Fighting help me? What about Rapid Shot? What about Autofire?

Does Two-Weapon Fighting help with ranged attacks or only melee? What about Ambidexterity? Is an Energy Blast considered an "armed" attack?

 

[Teflon Billy]

Thanks for the replies from the other thread. I think I am pretty much getting it. I have a few more questions though.

Let's say I want the ability to shoot Fire and Ice from my fists. Well Energy Blast is the obvious choice. I have two ways I want to do this. This first is the ability to select which blast I want to project. So I can fire my Energy Blast (Fire) +10 at someone, and if I notice that they are Immune to the fire effect, next round I will choose to fire Energy Blast (Ice) +10. The way I would build this (please tell me if I am wrong) is to take Energy Blast (Fire) +10 and take Energy Blast (Ice) as a power stunt. The total cost would be 22 points. Correct?

Correct

Now let's say I want shoot a sort of "mixed" Energy Blast of both Fire and Cold at the same time, all in once attack. This way if someone is Immune to fire, they will still be affected if they are not Immune to Ice (or vice versa). I guess I would purchase Energy Blast (Fire) +10 and then as an extra purchase Energy Blast (Ice). This would bump up the cost of the power to 3pp/rank. So it would end up costing me 30pp total. Would this be the correct way to do this? What happens if someone is susceptible to both Fire and Ice. Would this attack do double damage? 10 from Fire and 10 from Ice? If not, is there a special way to create the energy blast so that it CAN do double damage from one shot?

You'd need the Triggered extra added to the Second Energy Blast (Ice in this case) otherwise, you just have a very expensive second energy blast.

When I select the power Energy Blast, I assume that the power will fire from one of my fists (assuming I choose fist, vs. eyes, forehead, chest or whatever else you can choose). So I raise one of my fists and fire off an Energy Blast. What feats/stunts/extras do I need if I want to fire off two Energy Blasts?

Rapid Shot would do the trick.

Will Two-Weapon Fighting help me? What about Rapid Shot? What about Autofire?

We've found that Two-Weapon Fighting is a poor fit for Energy Blast (simply because there is no guarantee that Energy blasts etc. have anything to do with "handedness"...given Eye Beams/Breath Weapon etc.) Outside of normals using weaponry, it just seems a clumsy fit, and more of a a holdover from D&D than anything.

Does Two-Weapon Fighting help with ranged attacks or only melee? What about Ambidexterity? Is an Energy Blast considered an "armed" attack?

Your call.

We say no to all of the above and it's worked fine.

 

[RigaMortus2]

Now let's say I want shoot a sort of "mixed" Energy Blast of both Fire and Cold at the same time, all in once attack. This way if someone is Immune to fire, they will still be affected if they are not Immune to Ice (or vice versa). I guess I would purchase Energy Blast (Fire) +10 and then as an extra purchase Energy Blast (Ice). This would bump up the cost of the power to 3pp/rank. So it would end up costing me 30pp total. Would this be the correct way to do this? What happens if someone is susceptible to both Fire and Ice. Would this attack do double damage? 10 from Fire and 10 from Ice? If not, is there a special way to create the energy blast so that it CAN do double damage from one shot?

You'd need the Triggered extra added to the Second Energy Blast (Ice in this case) otherwise, you just have a very expensive second energy blast.

Sorry if I wasn't clear. I am asking 2 different questions here. Will the Triggered extra help me with both? Just so that I am a bit more clear:

(1) If I want to be able to fire one Energy Blast and have it do damage only once (let's say +10), but I want it to be fire based AND iced based (thus being able to affect those immune to one, but not the other), how would I build this?
Example: I fire a beam of "mixed" energy (fire and ice) at an opponent. They get hit by it and have to make a damage save (just one). If they are Immune to one source and not the other, they still would take damage. If they are not Immune to either (fire or ice) then they still only take damage once.

(2) If I want to be able to fire one Energy Blast that is fire based AND ice based, and I want each "base" (fire or ice) to do damage seperately, how would I build this?
Example: I fire a beam of "mixed" energy (fire and ice) at an opponent. They get hit by it and each type of energy does seperate damage. If they are Immune to one source and not the other, they would have to make one save vs. (fire or ice) and possibly get dealt damage once. If they were not Immune to either source, they would have to make 2 different damage saves (one vs Fire and one vs. Ice) and possibly take damage twice.

Hope that was a bit more clearer. So would the Triggered extra help both of these cases, or just one? And how would you build a power with those advantages and drawbacks?

 

[Samurai]

In case 1, take Extra: Ice Beam. (total 3 PP/rank)

In case 2, take Triggered Extra: Ice Beam (total 4 PP/rank, which is +1 for the Trigger and +1 for the Ice Beam) Triggers, however, usually require the 1st effect to hit and then the 2nd effect takes place automatically. (Think of a poisoned weapon... the poison is triggered by the blade hitting). If you want to make 2 seperate attacks, just go with case 1, Extra: Ice Beam. Technically, this allows you to do both at the same time, though to actually do double damage would require 2 attacks. The "either/or" scenario you described would simply be a single attack, doing normal 1x damage, using both beams at once. Splitting your attack into "2 weapons/attacks" would let you use each attack once per round at penalties.

 

[d4]

(1) If I want to be able to fire one Energy Blast and have it do damage only once (let's say +10), but I want it to be fire based AND iced based (thus being able to affect those immune to one, but not the other), how would I build this?
Example: I fire a beam of "mixed" energy (fire and ice) at an opponent. They get hit by it and have to make a damage save (just one). If they are Immune to one source and not the other, they still would take damage. If they are not Immune to either (fire or ice) then they still only take damage once.

first things first. if you have Immunity (Fire) that does not mean that you are immune to damage from fire attacks.

the Immunity super-feat makes you immune to environmental effects of that energy type: you could wade through a burning building and not take any damage. but when faced with an actual attack from another character, all Immunity (Fire) does is change lethal Fire attacks into stun Fire attacks.

so even if someone has Immunity (Fire), they are still forced to make a normal damage save against an Energy Blast (Fire).

the only way to make someone "immune" to an energy type is to buy Protection, flawed to only protect against that energy. i put "immune" in quotes because the Protection is only going to make you immune to attacks at a lower power rank than your Protection. if you've got Protection +10 (fire only), someone with an Energy Blast (fire) +10 is still going to force you to make a damage save. it'll only be DC 15, but you'll still have to roll.

now, if you wanted your Energy Blast to have special impact on someone who has either the weakness Vulnerable (Fire) or Vulnerable (Cold), you could probably do that with a custom extra.

Energy Blast (Fire) +10 [Extra: Affects targets with Vulnerable (Cold) as if it were Cold; Cost:3pp; Total: 30pp].

(2) If I want to be able to fire one Energy Blast that is fire based AND ice based, and I want each "base" (fire or ice) to do damage seperately, how would I build this?

Example: I fire a beam of "mixed" energy (fire and ice) at an opponent. They get hit by it and each type of energy does seperate damage. If they are Immune to one source and not the other, they would have to make one save vs. (fire or ice) and possibly get dealt damage once. If they were not Immune to either source, they would have to make 2 different damage saves (one vs Fire and one vs. Ice) and possibly take damage twice.

as above, everyone will always be making two damage saves, regardless of whether they have one Immunity or both.

Energy Blast (Fire) +10 [Extra: Energy Blast (Cold) (Extra: Triggered by Energy Blast (Fire)); Cost: 4pp; Total: 40pp].

this power lets you use a fire blast, a cold blast, or both together. your choice each round.

Energy Blast (Fire) +10 [Extra: Energy Blast (Cold) (Extra: Triggered by Energy Blast (Fire), Flaw: Restricted (Only when triggered)); Cost: 3pp; Total: 30pp].

this power can only fire a combined fire and cold blast. you cannot use either one separately.

finally, on the issue of TWF and Ambi. firstly, i dropped Ambi entirely and went with d20Modern's TWF.

secondly, i found that 9 times out of 10, TWF was unnecessary. want to be able to fire two Energy Blasts per round? Rapid Shot. want to be able to swipe with both claws every round? Natural Weapon with Rapid Strike.

unless the attack is coming from physically distinct weapons that you are holding in your hands, it's usually not necessary to buy TWF. even if you want to attack with claws on both hands, that can more easily be purchased as a single Natural Weapon power and the Rapid Strike feat. there's no need to buy two separate Natural Weapons just to cover this.

 

[The Grackle]

(1) If I want to be able to fire one Energy Blast and have it do damage only once (let's say +10), but I want it to be fire based AND iced based (thus being able to affect those immune to one, but not the other), how would I build this?
Example: I fire a beam of "mixed" energy (fire and ice) at an opponent. They get hit by it and have to make a damage save (just one). If they are Immune to one source and not the other, they still would take damage. If they are not Immune to either (fire or ice) then they still only take damage once.

This is pretty weak. I'd say "mixed energy" is a power stunt.