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<blockquote data-quote="Mokona" data-source="post: 5826440" data-attributes="member: 24891"><p>If 'race + class' = Archetype then what you're advocating is the <strong>D&D</strong> <em>Basic Set</em> version of the game where dwarf, elf, and gnome are classes. All fighters, clerics, thieves, and wizards are humans.</p><p></p><p>What is more impactful and gives race more meaning? Option A or option B:</p><p></p><p>A) Race: Dwarf. Racial Traits: +2 Constitution, -2 Charisma</p><p></p><p>B) Race: Dwarf. Racial Traits: Minimum of 10 in Constitution. Medium size. Speed 20ft. Speed not reduced by heavy armor or heavy load. Darkvision 60 ft. Stonecunning. Weapon familiarity with axes and hammers. +1 damage with axes and hammers. Dwarven stability - make a save with +X against being tripped or bull rushed. A dwarf is always allowed to make a Constitution Save against attacks with the Poison type for half damage even if no save is allowed. At 7th level a dwarf takes no damage and negates all effects on a successful Constitution save even if the effect says "save for half" (for effects that target Constitution) or "no save" (for poison effects). At 14th level a dwarf always takes half damage on all effects that allow a Constitution save even if he fails his save. +2 to saving throws again spells. +2 damage against orcs and goblinoids. +4 AC against giants. Trained in appraisal (free) when it comes to metal and stone objects of value. (Free) training in weaponsmith, armorer, miner, laborer/porter, siege engineer, blacksmith, locksmith, trapmaking, and stonemasonry. Automatic languages dwarven, common, orc, giant, and goblin. Favored class is fighter. Reduce by 5 feet the distance you're moved by any effect that pushes, pulls, or slides you. You can use Second Wind once per day as a free action as long as you're still conscious. +5 to morale saves. While friendly enough, elves have a -1 reaction adjustment when a dwarf takes the lead in negotiations. -1 to all skill checks when at sea (dwarves hate the sea). -1 to ride checks when mounted on a horse or larger animal (dwarves prefer ponies). Gain armor proficiency plate mail and heavy shield proficiency (free). Dwarves have 5% (1 out of 20) Spell Resistance at all times - they can learn to suppress this each morning and must do so if they want to cast arcane spells that day (i.e. dwarf fighters have this Resistance at all times but dwarf wizards have to give it up in order to cast spells).</p><p></p><p>I argue that Option B is meets the Morrus criteria way better than Option A. Further, Option B does not really benefit from a compromise that combines it with Option A. Option A reduces the fun for people who want to play against type (i.e. play the "wrong" classes) but Option B has no such effect. Option B better replicates the "dwarves are warriors" history than Option A. Option B produces distinctly <strong>dwarven</strong> wizards and <strong>dwarven</strong> thieves. Option A produces lots of battleminds (4e) who are dwarves.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Mokona, post: 5826440, member: 24891"] If 'race + class' = Archetype then what you're advocating is the [B]D&D[/B] [I]Basic Set[/I] version of the game where dwarf, elf, and gnome are classes. All fighters, clerics, thieves, and wizards are humans. What is more impactful and gives race more meaning? Option A or option B: A) Race: Dwarf. Racial Traits: +2 Constitution, -2 Charisma B) Race: Dwarf. Racial Traits: Minimum of 10 in Constitution. Medium size. Speed 20ft. Speed not reduced by heavy armor or heavy load. Darkvision 60 ft. Stonecunning. Weapon familiarity with axes and hammers. +1 damage with axes and hammers. Dwarven stability - make a save with +X against being tripped or bull rushed. A dwarf is always allowed to make a Constitution Save against attacks with the Poison type for half damage even if no save is allowed. At 7th level a dwarf takes no damage and negates all effects on a successful Constitution save even if the effect says "save for half" (for effects that target Constitution) or "no save" (for poison effects). At 14th level a dwarf always takes half damage on all effects that allow a Constitution save even if he fails his save. +2 to saving throws again spells. +2 damage against orcs and goblinoids. +4 AC against giants. Trained in appraisal (free) when it comes to metal and stone objects of value. (Free) training in weaponsmith, armorer, miner, laborer/porter, siege engineer, blacksmith, locksmith, trapmaking, and stonemasonry. Automatic languages dwarven, common, orc, giant, and goblin. Favored class is fighter. Reduce by 5 feet the distance you're moved by any effect that pushes, pulls, or slides you. You can use Second Wind once per day as a free action as long as you're still conscious. +5 to morale saves. While friendly enough, elves have a -1 reaction adjustment when a dwarf takes the lead in negotiations. -1 to all skill checks when at sea (dwarves hate the sea). -1 to ride checks when mounted on a horse or larger animal (dwarves prefer ponies). Gain armor proficiency plate mail and heavy shield proficiency (free). Dwarves have 5% (1 out of 20) Spell Resistance at all times - they can learn to suppress this each morning and must do so if they want to cast arcane spells that day (i.e. dwarf fighters have this Resistance at all times but dwarf wizards have to give it up in order to cast spells). I argue that Option B is meets the Morrus criteria way better than Option A. Further, Option B does not really benefit from a compromise that combines it with Option A. Option A reduces the fun for people who want to play against type (i.e. play the "wrong" classes) but Option B has no such effect. Option B better replicates the "dwarves are warriors" history than Option A. Option B produces distinctly [B]dwarven[/B] wizards and [B]dwarven[/B] thieves. Option A produces lots of battleminds (4e) who are dwarves. [/QUOTE]
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