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<blockquote data-quote="Particle_Man" data-source="post: 3351073" data-attributes="member: 892">I disagree.&nbsp; Here's why:5 ranks in Heal doesn't break the bank, and is actually a good investment for a low level cleric who might run out of spells.&nbsp; 5 ranks of knowledge religion helps turn undead, so we are talking about 4 more ranks of knowledge religion. Your domains get chosen for you.&nbsp; Sun domain is rather nice, though.&nbsp; The healing domain isn't the best, but you get a bonus domain with the class, which means you now have 3 domain powers.Extra turning is a good feat for a cleric to have.&nbsp; In a &quot;lots of undead&quot; campaign, just keep turning.&nbsp; In a &quot;not so much undead&quot; campaign, you can use a feat to turn those turn undeads into something else (and some of those are quite good, and themselves have extra turning as a prereq. anyhow).The lower hit die is effectively a &quot;negative feat&quot; (vs. improved toughness) but doesn't retroactively reduce previsous cleric hd, so you lose a maximum of 10 hp on average).&nbsp; The martial weapon proficiencies open up the &quot;cleric archer&quot; option, as well as give you much greater access to magic weapons that are randomly determined.&nbsp; To learn proficiency is one martial weapon is one feat.&nbsp; You get them all.A fairly common cleric trope is the &quot;heal and turn undead&quot; guy.&nbsp; It is not the only trope but it is far from rare (in fact, I would be tempted to say it is the default cleric that most people playing D&amp;D think of first when they hear the word &quot;cleric&quot; - note I did not say all people).&nbsp; If you play a cleric of this trope, why would you *not* take this prestige class?&nbsp; In fact, a cleric of this trope will likely take the feats and most of the skill ranks needed for prerequisites anyhow, so it is effectivley cost free except for the lost of 10 hp.I won't say &quot;broken&quot; in the sense of &quot;breaks the game&quot; but I will say &quot;broken&quot; in the sense of &quot;almost every cleric of the default cleric trope should take this prestige class because the positives so greatly outweigh the negatives&quot;.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Particle_Man, post: 3351073, member: 892"] I disagree. Here's why: 5 ranks in Heal doesn't break the bank, and is actually a good investment for a low level cleric who might run out of spells. 5 ranks of knowledge religion helps turn undead, so we are talking about 4 more ranks of knowledge religion. Your domains get chosen for you. Sun domain is rather nice, though. The healing domain isn't the best, but you get a bonus domain with the class, which means you now have 3 domain powers. Extra turning is a good feat for a cleric to have. In a "lots of undead" campaign, just keep turning. In a "not so much undead" campaign, you can use a feat to turn those turn undeads into something else (and some of those are quite good, and themselves have extra turning as a prereq. anyhow). The lower hit die is effectively a "negative feat" (vs. improved toughness) but doesn't retroactively reduce previsous cleric hd, so you lose a maximum of 10 hp on average). The martial weapon proficiencies open up the "cleric archer" option, as well as give you much greater access to magic weapons that are randomly determined. To learn proficiency is one martial weapon is one feat. You get them all. A fairly common cleric trope is the "heal and turn undead" guy. It is not the only trope but it is far from rare (in fact, I would be tempted to say it is the default cleric that most people playing D&D think of first when they hear the word "cleric" - note I did not say all people). If you play a cleric of this trope, why would you *not* take this prestige class? In fact, a cleric of this trope will likely take the feats and most of the skill ranks needed for prerequisites anyhow, so it is effectivley cost free except for the lost of 10 hp. I won't say "broken" in the sense of "breaks the game" but I will say "broken" in the sense of "almost every cleric of the default cleric trope should take this prestige class because the positives so greatly outweigh the negatives". [/QUOTE]

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