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<blockquote data-quote="FormerlyHemlock" data-source="post: 6661297" data-attributes="member: 6787650"><p>Yes, of course. I wasn't recommending the paladin nova as a good strategy, just trying to answer the question about ways to get up to &quot;60 dice of damage&quot;. But yeah, you can't count on tough enemies failing their saves, so save-or-die spells belong in an &quot;efficient killing&quot; strategy for when you e.g. face 8 Frost Giants at once (did that last night, 8 Frost Giants and 2 worgs vs. 4 10th level PCs, second fight of the day after having taken down 4 giants and 6 worgs in the first when negotiations failed disastrously). Therefore, save-or-die spells that hit an area are best, such as Hypnotic Pattern, whereas Hold Monster only hits one. Hold Monster does give you the auto-crit-in-melee effect, but other than that it is inferior in almost every way: hits only one target (vs 30' cube), lower range (90' vs 120'), doesn't affect undead (many undead are not immune to charm so can be hypnotized), gives a save every round to break free vs lasting until damaged/awakened. Hypnotic Pattern is more my style than paladin novaing--the paladin's job is to get the enemies to gang up on him and then cast a Quickened Hypnotic Pattern centered on himself, to which he is immune due to aura effects. (This paladin can't manage that yet but such is the eventual plan. This time we had a ranged duel with rocks instead.)</p></blockquote><p></p>

[QUOTE="FormerlyHemlock, post: 6661297, member: 6787650"] Yes, of course. I wasn't recommending the paladin nova as a good strategy, just trying to answer the question about ways to get up to "60 dice of damage". But yeah, you can't count on tough enemies failing their saves, so save-or-die spells belong in an "efficient killing" strategy for when you e.g. face 8 Frost Giants at once (did that last night, 8 Frost Giants and 2 worgs vs. 4 10th level PCs, second fight of the day after having taken down 4 giants and 6 worgs in the first when negotiations failed disastrously). Therefore, save-or-die spells that hit an area are best, such as Hypnotic Pattern, whereas Hold Monster only hits one. Hold Monster does give you the auto-crit-in-melee effect, but other than that it is inferior in almost every way: hits only one target (vs 30' cube), lower range (90' vs 120'), doesn't affect undead (many undead are not immune to charm so can be hypnotized), gives a save every round to break free vs lasting until damaged/awakened. Hypnotic Pattern is more my style than paladin novaing--the paladin's job is to get the enemies to gang up on him and then cast a Quickened Hypnotic Pattern centered on himself, to which he is immune due to aura effects. (This paladin can't manage that yet but such is the eventual plan. This time we had a ranged duel with rocks instead.) [/QUOTE]

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