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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Kytess" data-source="post: 4101" data-attributes="member: 477">I misinterpreted your statement that the ECLs were factored in.  Still, half-elves aren't as powerful as humans.  "they can use magic items typically available only to elves." - What items?  Elf blood means 3 things:* Half-elves can use certain _custom_ magic items* Rangers with favored enemy (elves) get bonuses to skill checks and damage vs. half-elves * Elf-bane weapons damage half-elves"And as I said before, they have NO penalties to balance this out." - What disadvantages do humans have?Humans have an extra feat, which is useful for jump-starting a character, and (level + 3) bonus skill points, which is useful for higher-level characters.  A good example of a class which benefits from this is paladin: many class skills to take, few skill points (2 base skill points, and Int isn't high on a paladin's stat list), and no bonus feats (despite having a great need for them).The half-elven skill bonuses are almost laughable; wasting the human bonus feat on Alertness gives better results.  For those not maxing out these skills, using jsut a few of the human bonus skill points works even better (so the feat can be used for something better).Really, the only major ability of half-elves is their low-light vision.  Even this, though, is minor in comparison to the human bonuses.Elf blood is a minor negative for half-elves, but really too petty to be considered.  Their favored class is the  same as humans'; their language selection is also identical.Sleep immunity will help half-elves survive for their first two levels (the only time I expect they'll see it), but it's nothing compared to the benefit of the first few levels with an extra feat - on levels 1-5, humans are noticeibly stronger as a result.**************************The better comparison might be to elves, though.  Half-elves have an advantage in language selection and favored class; elves have an advantage in skill bonuses.  These might be balanced against each other, but the elven weapon proficiencies put elves far ahead.Elves have +2 Dex/-2 Con, usually considered an incredible benefit.  Personally, I don't think that this is as good as it's made out to be, but it's certainly better than +0 Dex/-0 Con (unless you roll ability scores in order, in which case it could be very good or very bad).  On top of this, they can auto-detect secret doors - a useful, if limited, ability.*************************Even if you don't agree with me, you can tell from this poll how few people think half-elves are powerful - at last count they were in _last_ place, behind the "-2 net ability" half-orcs.</blockquote>

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