Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Enchanted Trinkets Complete--a hardcover book containing over 500 magic items for your D&D games!

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 246287" data-attributes="member: 4937">Kamikaze: Good post.I agree that there are several styles of play.  I'm biased in favor of gritty realism, I admit.  I like a gritty feel no matter how high the level of play.  Otherwise, I'd just as soon play Toon or Paranoia.One of my DM friends has been for some time running a campaign at a truly Epic Level of play.  Spell effects occassionally go off like atomic bombs and level cities, adventurers journey from planet to planet, stave off invasions of space creatures, do the work of the Gods on a daily basis, change the course of the history of the universe, occassionally hob-nob with the powers behind the Gods, and sail armadas of tall sailing ships from the sea of one world to another.  It is a truly interesting and well run setting, albiet a very esoteric one that probably wouldn't appeal to everyone.  Part of the reason I respect it might be due to the fact that the setting evolved through all the earlier stages of play.  Part of the reason I respect it might be the fact that even emmensely powerful, the characters are living in well realized worlds full of well realized characters.  Part of the reason, I respect it might be that the DM hasn't introduced anything without thinking about how it might alter the culture of his world(s) - even if it means that it won't continue to look anything like a standard D&D S&S setting.  But, for whatever reason, I respect it.To explain why I don't respect the sort of play the Epic Rules seem meant to encourage, I'd best tell a story.One day I went over to my girl friend's house.  Her younger brother (who'd eventually become my Brother-In-Law) was sitting at a table with his friends 'playing D&D'.  I of course was courious and went over to have a look at what they were doing.  The DM had his head bent over a 1st edition Deities & Demi-gods and was selecting which Deity the player's party of 30th level characters should slay next.  Apparantly, 'campaign' play consisted of not much more than flipping a page and saying, 'You encounter a Troll... You encounter an Umber Hulk... You encounter Thor... Roll for initiative.... 'ALRIGHT, WE KILLED THOR!'.'  I'm dead serious.  As you might imagine, I was somewhat disgusted, and suggested (as politely as I could) that first of all, their characters should not be able to kill the Gods, and secondly, that it was not necessary to search the Deities & Demi-Gods for challenges for thier characters - that I could challenge them with only monsters from MM1 (which they vehemently denied, noting they'd already killed Orcus and Asmodeus.).  I then proceeded to run them through a short imprompto dungeon and use a combination of setting (water, traps, falls) and Giant Octopi, Eye's of the Deep, and Ropers to kill off thier party of would be God Slayers.  The lesson here being that there is more to D&D than dice rolling, and that its that extra stuff they'd left out that makes D&D challenging and interesting.When someone announces that he wants his character to more resemble the characters of Mortal Kombat, I see this as being only one intellectual step removed from what my Brother-In-Law's junior high friends were doing.  Is he having fun?  Sure, and that's great, but it is to be hoped that he gets beyond that sometime soon after junior high.  Given the rapid rate of level gain in 3rd. Edition and the new 'Epic Level' rules, I can foresee the sort of play of my Brother-In-Law's young friends as becoming the standard progression for most new players.   Younger DM's simply won't have the time to mature before being asked to handle campaigning at levels of play with complexities that challenge DM's with 20 years experience.  The rules seem to cultivate more Munchkins, not fewer.  Once Munchkinized, few players out grow it.  They either leave the Hobby or they remain min/maxing munchkins into thier 30's.  They probably become the same people that use trainers, cheats, and PK in MMOLG's.For the record, the kids had fun, but were clearly upset and disillusioned that I'd destroyed there all powerful characters so easily. (It was of course only a dream, so no one stayed dead.)  I don't know if they ever out grew that.  My Brother-In-Law quit that group and became a reasonable but occasional player afterwards.</blockquote>

Verification