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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Xarlen" data-source="post: 247971" data-attributes="member: 1060">That's great. But, some of us want to fight something other then Orcs. Some of us Want to be a little more powerful then Joe Average, and be superheros, Be revered in the game world. And fighting orcs at level one isn't going to get that. And you seem to be under the assumption that every munchkin is so. No. Some people want their character to have some bang. To be good at their speciality. Yes, there is a difference between Survival of the Fitist and having squeezed every bonus possible. I want my wizard to have a high DC for spells, because his spells are what he survives by. Otherwise, what good is he in combat, if he can't cast the spells that's needed, be they buffs, damage, or whatnot. Or, even in non-combatant areas, high DCs are good. Charm the orc chieftain into *not* sacrificing the townfolk's children.And I live in a world where people try to protect the sanctity of life by ending others. I live in a world where people follow religions that say killing is wrong, yet they do it in the name of that very religion. Even if this Bothers me, I'm not preaching and educating because some people just don't want to be educated. I understand where you're coming from. I played in a group that the DM was the worst munchkkin I've encountered, and I felt useless because I was reduced to buffing up the party, sitting back, and letting them hack. My character was a halfling transmuter, the whole purpose was that he cut enemies down to size. Ray of Enfeeb, Blindness/Deafness, Bestow Curse, Poly Other, etc. But, the only two times I successfully got through something's spell resistance or saves, and polymorphed it, the DM had some NPC change it back. As a player, he created the most broken characters alive.But, I still like the guy, I still liked the players, I didn't begrudge them. They had a good time, even if it wasn't my kind of game. That's how they want to play, and I don't think hammering or standing on a high horse is going to help that. They're going to play their characters how they see fit. You can lead a group to some more 'sophisticated' play, but you can't make them involve themselves. Not to slam Monte, but have you Seen some of the spells he's created? Some of them Are munchkinbait. That doesn't take away from the sheer ability and the good stuff that he's turned out, but still, it shows he's giving some of that. And, yes, some of Monte's stuff is hack and slash. RttToEE is a big combat fest. Sure, it has plot, and a decent one, but the biggest things in the whole book Are dungeons. Even if they are well done dungeons, with dynamics and whatnot. I love what Monte does, don't get me wrong, I'm just saying that some of the stuff he does isn't pure 'sophisticated'.No, but Hack and Slash is part of the hobby. Otherwise, you wouldn't have cannonfodder, you wouldn't have dungeons, you'd have something like Hero, or Amber, in place of D&D. Maybe I just have a really good RP-centric group. Maybe I've just not played long enough. But sometimes, I do hunger just to get back into the Hack'n'Slash stuff. I have never DMed a pure Dungeon, I have never ran through one like the Forge of Fury. Te only one I did, the DM threw dragons at us like Orcs. So, I Do hunger for the Dungeon, I Do hunger for hack and slash, because I know little else. Does that make me a munchkin? Unsophisticated? Not every munchkin is a whiney, powerhungry jerk who looks for nothing more then to get everything he can. And, sometimes, being a Munchkin can save your character. Right now, my party is Underpowerful for their level, because they Didn't build their characters for utter power. But, they're enjoying their characters, and the plots and whatnot that happens. Does that mean that they're any less then someone who has the most bang for their character dollar?</blockquote>

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