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<blockquote data-quote="DrSpunj" data-source="post: 58908" data-attributes="member: 994">This quote got me thinking...Absolutely.&nbsp; But this statement got me to pull out the PHB and look at the Monk abilities again, specifically to see if the Wisdom bonus to AC and the AC bonus itself are consdered supernatural and would therefore be lost as a Forsaker.&nbsp; Unfortunately it doesn't say one way the other.&nbsp; I can't find any reference in that paragraph or the general entry that describe what kind of abilities they are.Looking through the list I can find the following:Wisdom to AC Bonus&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; ??AC Bonus&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; ??Stunning Attack&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; SupernaturalEvasion&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; ExtraordinaryFast Movement&nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;60'&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; ??&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;= 60'&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; SupernaturalStill Mind&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; ??Slow Fall&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; ??Purity of Body&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; ??Wholeness of Body&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; SupernaturalLeap of the Clouds&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; ??Improved Evasion&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; ?? (presumably Extraordinary like Evasion)Ki Strike&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; SupernaturalDiamond Body&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; SupernaturalAbundant Step&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Spell-likeDiamond Soul&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; ??Quivering Palm&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; SupernaturalTimeless Body&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; ??Tongue of the Sun &amp; Moon&nbsp; ??Empty Body&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; SupernaturalPerfect Self&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; ?? (&quot;becomes a magical creature&quot;)Is there some governing rule about class abilities that aren't specified?&nbsp; Are they all considered Extraordinary? or because they are unnamed rules about Ex/Sp/Su don't apply?&nbsp; If that's the case, a Monk/Forsaker doesn't gain a lot after Level 5 and Purity of Body IMO except an extra 10' to speed.&nbsp; Some may feel differently and want a few more levels for various things (if they want better unarmed damage, Leap of the Clouds, Improved Evasion, etc.).&nbsp; Regardless, I don't see much point in continuing after getting Improved Evasion at Level 9 given almost everything else for the next several levels is either Supernatural or Spell-like.Anyone have any specific thoughts on the best class or multiclass-combo to use before prestiging as a Forsaker?Thanks.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="DrSpunj, post: 58908, member: 994"] [b]This quote got me thinking...[/b] Absolutely. But this statement got me to pull out the PHB and look at the Monk abilities again, specifically to see if the Wisdom bonus to AC and the AC bonus itself are consdered supernatural and would therefore be lost as a Forsaker. Unfortunately it doesn't say one way the other. I can't find any reference in that paragraph or the general entry that describe what kind of abilities they are. Looking through the list I can find the following: Wisdom to AC Bonus ?? AC Bonus ?? Stunning Attack Supernatural Evasion Extraordinary Fast Movement <60' ?? >= 60' Supernatural Still Mind ?? Slow Fall ?? Purity of Body ?? Wholeness of Body Supernatural Leap of the Clouds ?? Improved Evasion ?? (presumably Extraordinary like Evasion) Ki Strike Supernatural Diamond Body Supernatural Abundant Step Spell-like Diamond Soul ?? Quivering Palm Supernatural Timeless Body ?? Tongue of the Sun & Moon ?? Empty Body Supernatural Perfect Self ?? ("becomes a magical creature") Is there some governing rule about class abilities that aren't specified? Are they all considered Extraordinary? or because they are unnamed rules about Ex/Sp/Su don't apply? If that's the case, a Monk/Forsaker doesn't gain a lot after Level 5 and Purity of Body IMO except an extra 10' to speed. Some may feel differently and want a few more levels for various things (if they want better unarmed damage, Leap of the Clouds, Improved Evasion, etc.). Regardless, I don't see much point in continuing after getting Improved Evasion at Level 9 given almost everything else for the next several levels is either Supernatural or Spell-like. Anyone have any specific thoughts on the best class or multiclass-combo to use before prestiging as a Forsaker? Thanks. [/QUOTE]

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