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<blockquote data-quote="ZYG" data-source="post: 58842" data-attributes="member: 864">Here are my opinions&nbsp; on the shaper's greater wild shape ability and templates.A templated creature, such as a half-dragon ogre, is an average average member of the half-dragon ogre species, and not an average member of the ogre species.&nbsp; Its type is dragon, and not large giant.&nbsp; That's why you cannot normally use polymorph self to turn yourself into a half-dragon, because you cannot change into the dragon type.&nbsp; The shifter can turn into the dragon type at 7th level, so he should be able to turn into a half-dragon at 7th level.It doesn't specify you cannot use templates, it says &quot;...Nor can you turn the subject into a variant form of the creature...&quot;.A templated creature is not a variant of the base creature, just as the half-elf is not a variant of the human or elf creature, and the dire bat is not a variant of the bat creature.&nbsp; A variant, as I see it,&nbsp; might be a double jointed ogre.&nbsp; I see no reason why you couldn't turn into a celestial lion, which is a magical beast, if you could normally turn into a displacer beast, which is also a magical beast.A)&nbsp; There is no &quot;templated&quot; base type.&nbsp; A half-dragon creature has a base type of dragon.&nbsp; A celestial creature is usually magical beast, or it retains it's own type.&nbsp; A ghost/lich is undead, hafl-celestial/half-fiend is outsider and a lycanthrope is a shapechanger.B)&nbsp; You control the height/weight of the creature you turn into.&nbsp; You could turn into a medium dragon (a very young or young dragon), which is just a hit die advanced small dragon (a wyrmling).&nbsp; If the advancement for a creature is &quot;by character class&quot;, then you cannot turn into an advanced creature, but if the advancement is by HD/size, then you should be able to turn into an advanced creature, such as a large gargoyle (it's nornally medium), as long as its HD are not greater than yours.C)&nbsp; A legendary animal is of type animal, just like a dire animal, so if you have 30 HD, you should be able to turn into a legendary shark.I might be wrong on this one, but the only shapes that were omitted from the shaper were fey and shapechanger, so he cannot turn into a pixie or a doppleganger.Disclamer:&nbsp; The preceding were all my opinions.- Z Y G</blockquote>

[QUOTE="ZYG, post: 58842, member: 864"] Here are my [U]opinions[/U] on the shaper's [I]greater wild shape[/I] ability and templates. A templated creature, such as a half-dragon ogre, is an average average member of the half-dragon ogre species, and not an average member of the ogre species. Its type is dragon, and not large giant. That's why you cannot normally use polymorph self to turn yourself into a half-dragon, because you cannot change into the dragon type. The shifter can turn into the dragon type at 7th level, so he should be able to turn into a half-dragon at 7th level. It doesn't specify you cannot use templates, it says "...Nor can you turn the subject into a variant form of the creature...". A templated creature is not a variant of the base creature, just as the half-elf is not a variant of the human or elf creature, and the dire bat is not a variant of the bat creature. A variant, as I see it, might be a double jointed ogre. I see no reason why you couldn't turn into a celestial lion, which is a magical beast, if you could normally turn into a displacer beast, which is also a magical beast. A) There is no "templated" base type. A half-dragon creature has a base type of dragon. A celestial creature is usually magical beast, or it retains it's own type. A ghost/lich is undead, hafl-celestial/half-fiend is outsider and a lycanthrope is a shapechanger. B) You control the height/weight of the creature you turn into. You could turn into a medium dragon (a very young or young dragon), which is just a hit die advanced small dragon (a wyrmling). If the advancement for a creature is "by character class", then you cannot turn into an advanced creature, but if the advancement is by HD/size, then you should be able to turn into an advanced creature, such as a large gargoyle (it's nornally medium), as long as its HD are not greater than yours. C) A legendary animal is of type animal, just like a dire animal, so if you have 30 HD, you should be able to turn into a legendary shark. I might be wrong on this one, but the only shapes that were omitted from the shaper were fey and shapechanger, so he cannot turn into a pixie or a doppleganger. Disclamer: The preceding were all my [I]opinions[/I]. - Z Y G [/QUOTE]

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