Mountain giants a very weak CR 26?

[CM]

So I'm running a 3.5 version of the Against the Giants: The Liberation of Geoff 2nd-edition module, and I'm looking through the Monster Manual 2 for giants to stock a town with. Mountain Giants sound cool. A small family of three or four shouldn't be a problem. Then I take a look at their CR of 26 and I did a double-take. Is it just me, or are they vastly underpowered for their CR? I think a trio of storm giants could prove more of a challenge than a single mountain giant, and their EL is 10 lower. I'm sure my party of 15/16th-level characters would have a reasonable chance of success taking one on if properly prepared.

The only thing the mountain giant has going for it is Fortitude/HP and raw damage-dealing potential. Its summon giants ability is useless (not to mention strange). Will effects are devastating. It has only a 50% chance of hitting a great wyrm red, also (an admittedly strong) CR 26. As long as you can fight it on your own terms (flight and invisibility help), it's a piece of cake. A piece of cake with 43 Strength and special attacks like Crush, Fling, Grapple, and Trample, but still a piece of cake. You're never going to hurt it with Fortitude effects, but Spells like Otto's Irresistible Dance, Hold Monster, and even the lowly Slow will ruin its day.

It seems to me it should be a low 17 or high 16. Anyone else?

 

[Darkness]

Yeah, 26 is a bit high. They are a little tougher than a titan (except that the titan has SR 32 and DR 15/lawful) but have far fewer special abilities. Plus, their Will save is only +10 and they don't even have any other immunities protecting them from mind control and such (besides not being a Humanoid, which is relatively irrelevant at these levels).

Hm. Dominate monster, cast at Int/Cha 26 (16 base + 4 levels + 6 item). Save DC: 27, meaning they have a 20% chance of resisting.
Some spells below 9th level would do the job too.
Hold monster, cast by a Sor/Wiz at Int/Cha 20 (16 base + 2 levels + 2 item). Save DC: 20, meaning they have a 55% chance of resisting - and that's against a caster of level 9-10 or so. Considering you generally aren't supposed to defeat creatures 8 or more CRs above party level, that's a glaring weakness IMO. Sure, a hold monster spell by itself won't kill them. Still, if you add a CDG, the odds aren't that bad at even level 9-10. If the CR 26 was correct, only parties of level 19+ should generally have an actual chance against it anyway (a very, very small chance) - but such characters would make short work of it. Something's definitely not right here.

 

[Darkness]

Heck, just compare its stats to the tarrasque (CR 20 in 3.5). Even if you don't consider the tarrasque's qualities that make it so hard to kill, it wins. Arguably handily so.

I rest my case.

(*Edit* Clarification: And by "qualities that make it so hard to kill," I don't mean "defense qualities in general.")

 

[the Jester]

I rate a mountain giant as CR 16. Too many easily-exploited achilles heels.

 

[Lamoni]

I rate a mountain giant as CR 16. Too many easily-exploited achilles heels.

After reading this thread I decided to ask our DM to put us up against a mountain giant. Let's see... three level 12 PC's, one CR 26 monster. How much XP is that? I know you would have to extrapolate the table, but it would easily be enough to level us all up. Maybe I should ask for one a day... we'd get to level 20 in no time.

edit: this is dependent on knowing what is coming. If the mountain giant took us by surprise, we'd either a) all be dead if it got to my sorcerer first or b) all be dead except for those who could get to my sorcerer in time to teleport away.

 

[Crothian]

Ya, way over rating. Did they ever errata them, one would think they should.

 

[MerakSpielman]

Sounds like they're closer to a CR 16 or 17.

 

[Trainz]

After reading this thread I decided to ask our DM to put us up against a mountain giant. Let's see... three level 12 PC's, one CR 26 monster. How much XP is that? I know you would have to extrapolate the table[...]

No extrapolation, you're simply not allowed to gain XPs from a monster that is over 8 above your EL.

One might say that this is not fair, but in fact it's the DM that is not fair to the monsters by allowing his players to defeat such a powerful monster.

Unless it's a Mountain Giant of course.

 

[Diirk]

No extrapolation, you're simply not allowed to gain XPs from a monster that is over 8 above your EL.

Thats not correct. "If the party is taking on challenges that far above their level, something strange is going on and the DM needs to think carefully about the awards rather than just taking them off a table. See Assigning Ad Hoc XP Awards, page 39"

In this case, the 'something strange' would be that it really doesn't deserve to be CR 26 and that they should instead get the experience a more appropriate CR would provide.

 

[Fenris]

Fo some reason I read the title as Mountain GOATS. And I was really wondering what you were feeding them

(runs off to see an optomotrist)