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<blockquote data-quote="mlund" data-source="post: 5929439" data-attributes="member: 50304">There real problem is there's no such thing as a bottleneck under the rules unless you have Stand Your Ground.Have 4 players in a 10' square? Grog the Orc doesn't care. He walks right through your square and beats your Wizard to a pulp and the players cry &quot;foul!&quot; Have 6 Orcs and 4 front-line fighters in a 10' deep x 20' wide area all making melee attacks? Dave's Wizard doesn't care. He steps right into the melee, hits someone with shocking grasp, and retreats. When the Orcs decide to pay him back for his electric mayhem next turn they completely ignore the front-line fighters and saunter over to Dave's character for a pounding and the PCs cry &quot;foul!&quot;My PCs in general don't mind that they have Spring attack and never provoke OAs wherever they go. They get irked if I have the monsters use the same tactics on them, though.Sticking your head into touch or weapon range of a combatant should be dangerous.I think I agree that the double-penalty was a bad idea. It is actually self-defeating. Anyone leaving the melee to hit the spring-attacking Wizard would get Disadvantage and cancel out the Advantage to hit him anyway.So I think this is a better idea:1.) Anyone who is within melee reach of an enemy or touches someone within melee reach of an enemy is &quot;in melee.&quot;2.) Anyone who moves out of a melee without spending an action grants Advantage to attack him to all enemies until the start of his next turn.3.) Anyone who was in melee at any point during their turn has Disadvantage to Ranged Attacks. (replaces rule about making a ranged attack in melee)This also leaves plenty of room for a &quot;Skirmisher&quot; theme with feats that eliminate such penalties.- Marty Lund</blockquote>

[QUOTE="mlund, post: 5929439, member: 50304"] There real problem is there's no such thing as a bottleneck under the rules unless you have Stand Your Ground. Have 4 players in a 10' square? Grog the Orc doesn't care. He walks right through your square and beats your Wizard to a pulp and the players cry "foul!" Have 6 Orcs and 4 front-line fighters in a 10' deep x 20' wide area all making melee attacks? Dave's Wizard doesn't care. He steps right into the melee, hits someone with shocking grasp, and retreats. When the Orcs decide to pay him back for his electric mayhem next turn they completely ignore the front-line fighters and saunter over to Dave's character for a pounding and the PCs cry "foul!" My PCs in general don't mind that [b]they[/b] have Spring attack and never provoke OAs wherever they go. They get irked if I have the monsters use the same tactics on them, though. Sticking your head into touch or weapon range of a combatant should be dangerous. I think I agree that the double-penalty was a bad idea. It is actually self-defeating. Anyone leaving the melee to hit the spring-attacking Wizard would get Disadvantage and cancel out the Advantage to hit him anyway. So I think this is a better idea: 1.) Anyone who is within melee reach of an enemy or touches someone within melee reach of an enemy is "in melee." 2.) Anyone who moves out of a melee without spending an action grants Advantage to attack him to all enemies until the start of his next turn. 3.) Anyone who was in melee at any point during their turn has Disadvantage to Ranged Attacks. (replaces rule about making a ranged attack in melee) This also leaves plenty of room for a "Skirmisher" theme with feats that eliminate such penalties. - Marty Lund [/QUOTE]

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