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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Speaks With Stone" data-source="post: 500233" data-attributes="member: 375">I believe the problem is that if a hustle = 60 ft per round or 10 ft per second and you halve that to 30 ft per round or 5 ft per second, then you are by definition hustling and moving silent at the same time with no penalty.  If you believe that hustling is faster than walking and walking is faster than sneaking, then there is a significant disconect.  The speeds above are for double moves.Now for a single move equivalent action (which of course assumes you can attack, cast a spell or whatever as well) then a hustle allows a single 30 foot move, a walk allows a single 15 foot move and a sneak allows IceBears dreaded 7.5 ft move.It seems to me that kreynolds and others feel no need to reconcile the "fluff" in the rules about hustle for a double move or a 30 ft move equivalent action assumes a hustle for that portion.To my way of thinking and to souljourner and others there should be a distinction between sneaking, walking, hustling/jogging as far as movement rates go.The rules suggest a distintion, but don't clearly spell out what the distinction is since speed is defined in different ways in different parts of the game.  My GM has already ruled that he agrees with IceBear and kreynolds that it doesn't matter so much.  The double move rate was halved and balance was fine (even if the math doesn't make perfect sense on close analysis).  I submit that the following rates should apply for a base 30 per round:Move silent 2.5 ft/secWalk 5 ft/sec.Jog/hustle 10 ft/secRun 20 ft per sec(Round to the nearest 5 ft increment)Never the less, we will be using Move silent or walk 5 ft/secJog/Hustle 10 ft/secRun 20 ft/secFinally, for those who wonder why this matters, last week I cast invisibility on everyone in our party so we could sneak out of a trap.  Wizards/clerics/rogues/fighters were all lined up outside of the only exit and it had been alarmed.  We knew the keyword so we could sneak out, but the GM made lots of listen checks.  How far away we got in one round had a significant impact on their followup listen checks.  Since we are lurking about a city of hostiles and will have to continue sneaking in this fashion for some time, the question of movement was very high on our list.I've enjoyed seeing all of the back and forth and I think I see both points of view, I tend to prefer one over the other, but clearly my group is divided.</blockquote>

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