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Message: <blockquote data-quote="drnuncheon" data-source="post: 500878" data-attributes="member: 96">K, I've said it many times: I think that 'normal speed' is walking speed.  15' per move action, 30' per round.  I'm not sure how much clearer about that I can be.Stepping out of combat for a moment: if someone were moving silently with no penalty for one minute, how far would they get?  Would you use half of the walking rate?  Half of the hustle rate?  Half of the run rate?  What if they were doing it for an hour? For a whole day?But to answer your question: no, I'm not referring to the special action double-move hustle when I say that a hustle is faster than normal.  I'm referring to the fact that you are going 6 mph during the time that you are moving, instead of the normal walking speed of 3 mph.  When you hustle, be it for one move, a double move, or an hour, you are going at the same speed: roughly 6 mph, or 60' per round.  The fact that you only go 30' is immaterial, because you're also doing it in half the time - you're still moving faster than normal, because you have the time to get to whatever is 30 feet away and then perform a standard action, whereas the person walking would only just be getting there as you finished that standard action.Normal speed = 30 feet per round (walking speed).Normal speed therefore = 15 feet per move action.Half of normal speed = 7.5 feet per move action, or 15 feet per round.I don't understand how this conflicts with the core rules at all.The reason I think your definition of 'normal speed' changes in combat is because you are figuring the speed of someone moving silently based on half the speed of someone who is hustling.  If you do not do that out of combat - if you figure the speed of someone moving silently based on the speed of someone who is walking - then you are indeed changing the definition of 'normal speed' from walking to hustling.If you always figure the speed of someone who is moving silently based on the speed of someone who is hustling, whether they are moving for a round, a minute, an hour, or a day, then...well, then I'm not sure what to say except "why do you think hustling is 'normal'?"I've asked time and again why you think a hustle (60' per round, 30' per move action) is 'normal speed'.  I agree that if you accept that premise, then you should be able to move silently at a rate of 30' per round, 15' per move action.  But I cannot see where that premise is defensible, because a 'hustle' is not 'normal speed'.  It's double speed.  Even if you're only hustling 30' in one round and then doing something else, you're still moving at double speed when you're actually moving.Maybe it's the feet per round thing that is confusing the issue.  Normal speed, to me, is walking speed - that is, as defined in the PHB, roughly 3 mph.A hustle (double speed) is 6 mph, and moving silently (half normal speed) would therefore be about 1 1/2 mph.When you move 30' as a move action, even if you do something else in the round, you are moving at 6 mph (hustling).  If you move 15' in a move action, you're going 3 mph (normal speed).  Only if you move 7.5' in a move action can you be going half normal speed.J</blockquote>

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