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Message: <blockquote data-quote="zeela" data-source="post: 374074" data-attributes="member: 7639">jontherev -Sorry, I didn't mean to insult anybody. I had just read the whole thread and honestly was too lazy to go back up and figure out exactly who said what. And since 'you' in English can be directed at multiple people I decided to go the easy route.That's not quite the point I was trying to make. First of all, I am not only talking about rogues. And second, not only about invisibility cases. The point is, if you get a bonus to your move silently because you are tumbling, somebody might take advantage of that and just alwyas tumble. Why ever walk? And if there is no penalty for this. And that assumes that that character basically never provokes AoOs, as long as he has enough ranks in toumble. My point was just that I thought the DM ruled right in giving a penalty to the move silently. Exactly. You still have to pick the square. And even then you have 50% miss chance. If you are willing to attempt an AoO, fine, under all these penalties, though. I would not compare that to Blindsight or See Invisibility.I agree. You can't hear everything the creature is doing. But moving? There are clear rules on how you can hear somebody move - an opposed move silently <-> listen check. That's all.Would you agree with this scenario: He was standing right next to them, was visible, on his turn activated his ring (standard action), then tried to move away. They knew where he was, they new he just turned invisible, and then made the listen check against his MS DC to hear he was moving away. So that's why he tumbled. He made the tumble DC, so no AoOs, but his modified MS wasn't high enough so they knew which direction he went.Would that be acceptable ruling?I thought I was providing more than sheer opinion, that's what that whole 10 page post was supposed to be. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> That sentence was just to sum it up. Yeah, after I already posted I saw that. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" /> I had to laugh, but by then it was to late, people had already read my post. DOH!Thanks!</blockquote>

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