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<blockquote data-quote="jontherev" data-source="post: 374093" data-attributes="member: 1451">Ok, so I'll ask you too.&nbsp; Why?It's +1/10' actually.&nbsp; The Listen skill doesn't mention that you pinpoint someone's exact location, just that you hear the noise.&nbsp; You then use your eyes to find them.&nbsp; Doing this with normal ears only from anything but melee seems unbalancing to me for what should be obvious reasons.Wrong.&nbsp; Check out the DMG.&nbsp; It's DC 20 Spot check to notice an invisible creature nearby, not to actually pinpoint it's exact location.&nbsp; I'm still waiting on a rule citation from you on pinpointing someone's exact location with a simple Listen check.&nbsp; I'm not saying you are wrong, mind you, just that I can't recall.How can you tell it's going to be a grapple, which tells you you might have a chance for an AoO?&nbsp; How do you even know he's unarmed?How do you know what he's searching for?&nbsp; How much effort is going into concentrating on this foe, and how would this extra-effort effect your AC vs. other foes (sensible circumstance modifier)?Show me the rule.&nbsp; I'd give you the bandage tearing, and maybe the spell in melee.&nbsp; The point is, is that it takes a judgment call on EVERY action done by an invisible foe to determine whether an AoO is provoked or not.&nbsp; It's not all or nothing.To answer the original question, yes it is covered in the rules.&nbsp; At least, there is no mention of a penalty, so if you think there should be, make a house rule or give a circumstance modifier.&nbsp; I wouldn't put more than a -5 on the MS check myself.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="jontherev, post: 374093, member: 1451"] [B][/b] Ok, so I'll ask you too. Why? [b][/b] It's +1/10' actually. The Listen skill doesn't mention that you pinpoint someone's exact location, just that you hear the noise. You then use your eyes to find them. Doing this with normal ears only from anything but melee seems unbalancing to me for what should be obvious reasons. [b][/b] Wrong. Check out the DMG. It's DC 20 Spot check to notice an invisible creature nearby, not to actually pinpoint it's exact location. I'm still waiting on a rule citation from you on pinpointing someone's exact location with a simple Listen check. I'm not saying you are wrong, mind you, just that I can't recall. [b][/b] How can you tell it's going to be a grapple, which tells you you might have a chance for an AoO? How do you even know he's unarmed? [b][/b] How do you know what he's searching for? How much effort is going into concentrating on this foe, and how would this extra-effort effect your AC vs. other foes (sensible circumstance modifier)? [b][/b] Show me the rule. I'd give you the bandage tearing, and maybe the spell in melee. The point is, is that it takes a judgment call on EVERY action done by an invisible foe to determine whether an AoO is provoked or not. It's not all or nothing. To answer the original question, yes it is covered in the rules. At least, there is no mention of a penalty, so if you think there should be, make a house rule or give a circumstance modifier. I wouldn't put more than a -5 on the MS check myself. [/QUOTE]

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