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Moving Silently While Invisible
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<blockquote data-quote="Riley37" data-source="post: 6473186" data-attributes="member: 6786839"><p>I would distinguish between hearing checks and sight checks, and Stealth for sound rather than Stealth for sight.</p><p></p><p>If you're not invisible and not totally obscured and you're using Stealth, then presumably you're trying to be both unheard and unseen, which is no easy task. You're moving in shadows (so to speak), darting from behind this tree (or crate) to that one, hoping you've timed it for the moment the foe isn't looking that way. If you fail, then one way to fail is "the foe hears or smells that someone is nearby", and another way is "the foe sees you directly" (and usually has line of fire, though perhaps you have cover). I consider it sensible for Stealth and Perception rules to be written with this as the default or primary case. Total obscurement keeps you from being *seen*, but not from being heard.</p><p></p><p>If you're invisible, or you're in full darkness and you can see and the foes can't, then you can stop worrying about direct observation, and focus on (a) silence and (b) not leaving tracks.</p><p></p><p>So, yeah, either you have advantage when Invisible because being silent is easier when you're not limited to cover/shadow, or the foe has disadvantage. In the former case, then against a foe who has advantage with smell/hearing, then you're both rolling with Advantage. In the latter case, neither of you are. I'd prefer the latter, because then other factors can still grant advantage or disadvantage.</p><p></p><p>There's still the question of whether the foe just noticed that someone's nearby, or whether they've actually pinpointed your location, and I don't have a categorical answer for that. Maybe if the first roll fails but the Advantage roll succeeds, then it was their superior smell/hearing which tipped them off to your presence?</p><p></p><p>Or perhaps a passive roll can detect general presence, while an active success is needed to determine location? Perhaps spending an Action on search, and then winning the opposed roll by 5 determines which square (location to within 5'), and winning by 10 means pinpoint location?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Riley37, post: 6473186, member: 6786839"] I would distinguish between hearing checks and sight checks, and Stealth for sound rather than Stealth for sight. If you're not invisible and not totally obscured and you're using Stealth, then presumably you're trying to be both unheard and unseen, which is no easy task. You're moving in shadows (so to speak), darting from behind this tree (or crate) to that one, hoping you've timed it for the moment the foe isn't looking that way. If you fail, then one way to fail is "the foe hears or smells that someone is nearby", and another way is "the foe sees you directly" (and usually has line of fire, though perhaps you have cover). I consider it sensible for Stealth and Perception rules to be written with this as the default or primary case. Total obscurement keeps you from being *seen*, but not from being heard. If you're invisible, or you're in full darkness and you can see and the foes can't, then you can stop worrying about direct observation, and focus on (a) silence and (b) not leaving tracks. So, yeah, either you have advantage when Invisible because being silent is easier when you're not limited to cover/shadow, or the foe has disadvantage. In the former case, then against a foe who has advantage with smell/hearing, then you're both rolling with Advantage. In the latter case, neither of you are. I'd prefer the latter, because then other factors can still grant advantage or disadvantage. There's still the question of whether the foe just noticed that someone's nearby, or whether they've actually pinpointed your location, and I don't have a categorical answer for that. Maybe if the first roll fails but the Advantage roll succeeds, then it was their superior smell/hearing which tipped them off to your presence? Or perhaps a passive roll can detect general presence, while an active success is needed to determine location? Perhaps spending an Action on search, and then winning the opposed roll by 5 determines which square (location to within 5'), and winning by 10 means pinpoint location? [/QUOTE]
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