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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Treebore" data-source="post: 3737854" data-attributes="member: 10177">Very true, the play is very different. Like in 3e, to attempt the Whirlwind you have to build a feat chain. I think there is one or two more than what you have listed, but I haven't played 3E in two years. The good thing is you can do it no matter what once you earn it (I think).In C&C you can attempt to do a "Whirlwind" like attack from level one, you just have to hit the TN set by the CK who is willing to let you. Say I have a player facing off against 4 1 HD Orcs, and the player tells me he wants to try and hit all of them with one swing (IE whirlwind). The PC is a fighter type so I set the base TN at 12 + 1/HD of opponents. So 4HD is a CL 4, so TN is 12+4 for TN 16 to beat. If he rolls successfully then he gets to roll the attack, because the SIEGE check said he "set up" the maneuver. He will have to hit the highest AC in the group (which is likely all the same AC anyways), but if he does he applies damage to all of his opponents.So the drawback here is you have to make two successful rolls to do a "whirlwind" type of attack, but the cool thing is you can do it at level one.It just so happens that in my games if you roll enough successful maneuvers of a specific type, say Cleave, or Great Cleave, I'll award that as a "character specific ability", which are called feats by 3E players. So in my game you can earn these character abilities, which will negate the need for a roll. I limit this to creatures no more than 3 HD above your PC's level. In the case of Whirlwind I would have to add some more "limits" to it, since it is pretty darn powerful. Probably only have it work without a roll versus cretures half your PC's HD in their own HD, as well as be fewer in number than your PC's HD.Example: The PC is a 10th level fighter, he is fighting 5th level human fighters. They number 10 or less he gets to do a Whirlwind without rolling a SIEGE check, just the "to hit".  11 or more he would have to also do a SIEGE check. Which would be impossible to make unless you allow nat 20's to always succeed.So looking at that I would probably change the house rule to: Opponents must have half the PC's HD or less, and be fewer in number than half the PC's level. Meaning the above example would be 5th level fighters and numbering 5 or less in order for the PC to not have to roll a SIEGE check. 6 or more would require a check that is still impossible [(5x6)+12= TN 42], but at least its within 12 of the tenth level fighters max possible roll.</blockquote>

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