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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Treebore" data-source="post: 3738480" data-attributes="member: 10177">Did you read my post about Whirlwind? I clarified the mechanics as for how I would do it, but before that I illustrated how the SIEGE engine itself would handle it. Without my further building house rules on it, purely as a SIEGE mechanic, the Whirlwind would only be possible against substantially lower, and substantially fewer opponents than are possible with the 3E rules. I then add in how I would work out firm houserules if I were to award such an ability as a character ability.So I demonstrated exactly how the SIEGE engine would handle it, and then how I would house rule it. Two different things. Before and after personal development.So I am giving honest assessments to people who completely read what I wrote.See? SIEGE engine:"In C&C you can attempt to do a "Whirlwind" like attack from level one, you just have to hit the TN set by the CK who is willing to let you. Say I have a player facing off against 4 1 HD Orcs, and the player tells me he wants to try and hit all of them with one swing (IE whirlwind). The PC is a fighter type so I set the base TN at 12 + 1/HD of opponents. So 4HD is a CL 4, so TN is 12+4 for TN 16 to beat. If he rolls successfully then he gets to roll the attack, because the SIEGE check said he "set up" the maneuver. He will have to hit the highest AC in the group (which is likely all the same AC anyways), but if he does he applies damage to all of his opponents.So the drawback here is you have to make two successful rolls to do a "whirlwind" type of attack, but the cool thing is you can do it at level one."Then how I worked out house ruling it:"It just so happens that in my games if you roll enough successful maneuvers of a specific type, say Cleave, or Great Cleave, I'll award that as a "character specific ability", which are called feats by 3E players. So in my game you can earn these character abilities, which will negate the need for a roll. I limit this to creatures no more than 3 HD above your PC's level. In the case of Whirlwind I would have to add some more "limits" to it, since it is pretty darn powerful. Probably only have it work without a roll versus cretures half your PC's HD in their own HD, as well as be fewer in number than your PC's HD.Example: The PC is a 10th level fighter, he is fighting 5th level human fighters. They number 10 or less he gets to do a Whirlwind without rolling a SIEGE check, just the "to hit". 11 or more he would have to also do a SIEGE check. Which would be impossible to make unless you allow nat 20's to always succeed.So looking at that I would probably change the house rule to: Opponents must have half the PC's HD or less, and be fewer in number than half the PC's level. Meaning the above example would be 5th level fighters and numbering 5 or less in order for the PC to not have to roll a SIEGE check. 6 or more would require a check that is still impossible [(5x6)+12= TN 42], but at least its within 12 of the tenth level fighters max possible roll."Plus may I repeat that I use 3E feat terminology because its a "commonly understood language". If I was explaining this to people without knowledge of 3E and feats I would just call them "actions" that you can take. I do not use the feat words because they are used in C&C.So I am not starting an argument. I am giving an honest assessment with accurate examples.</blockquote>

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