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MrPereira's WOTBS D&D 3.5 Campaign (SPOILERS IN THE POSTS)
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<blockquote data-quote="StreamOfTheSky" data-source="post: 6726449" data-attributes="member: 35909"><p>Glad you started this. I skipped almost all of Chapter 1 so i could keep my promise of starting the party at level 3. So it's interesting to see how things worked out in your game. I just summarized for the party what happened, making assumptions on what they'd have done, and beginning with Menash speaking to them and then their escape from the city.</p><p></p><p>And yes, I love to point out when the party's being hypocrites or tease them that they're the real bad guy. Being a DM means having to take a loss pretty much every combat, you take what little morale victories you can get. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite8" alt=":D" title="Big grin :D" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":D" /></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I've never agreed that class level = CR is a valid metric, that seems not nearly true. I have generally been having the CR set to X -1 for NPC's w/ PC class or Adept levels and X -2 for other NPC class levels, where X is their level. However, for primary casters, it's not that far off, and i usually still go with CR = X for them.</p><p>The issue with the inquisitors isn't that cleric 4 is not worthy of CR 4. The issue is more that they tend to have horrible AC and in general get shafted on equipment. I get they're supposed to be "feral" and justh ave hide armor and some weak claw weapons, but....the game is very gear-dependent, and if you're not giving classed humanoids the equipment and magic items expected of them, they are much weaker. I find when I don't want to give the NPCs appropriate magic items (either out of laziness of looking them up, or because I don't want the party getting ever more loot), it's best to just add a level or (sometimes, for non-casters) two, to make up for it. I did also make an extensive re-write of vow of poverty for any alignment to alleviate such issues, too.</p><p>The stats are also written with mostly core rules only, and using elite array. Few DMs place such restrictions on the PCs, and while it may be stating the obvious...you need to optimize the NPCs to the level the PCs are allowed to be. Which is daunting when you have to do it for hundreds of characters, so DMs probably are just running the inquisitors as-is and getting the predictable result.</p><p>Of course, being the most vile, evil characters in the setting also makes them giant targets for the party's wrath. I optimize my inquisitors and they still drop fast, simply because as soon as the party gets to fight one, they will always go 100% full force, focused-fire on him/her, even (in my experience, at least) taking AoOs and risks to do so, because they hate them just that much. That probably exacerbates the problem and is why inquisitors in particular are mentioned as being too weak (the various caster / non-caster multiclass characters are far weaker and more pathetic for their listed CRs...apparently "nonassociated class levels" was never taken into account).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="StreamOfTheSky, post: 6726449, member: 35909"] Glad you started this. I skipped almost all of Chapter 1 so i could keep my promise of starting the party at level 3. So it's interesting to see how things worked out in your game. I just summarized for the party what happened, making assumptions on what they'd have done, and beginning with Menash speaking to them and then their escape from the city. And yes, I love to point out when the party's being hypocrites or tease them that they're the real bad guy. Being a DM means having to take a loss pretty much every combat, you take what little morale victories you can get. :D I've never agreed that class level = CR is a valid metric, that seems not nearly true. I have generally been having the CR set to X -1 for NPC's w/ PC class or Adept levels and X -2 for other NPC class levels, where X is their level. However, for primary casters, it's not that far off, and i usually still go with CR = X for them. The issue with the inquisitors isn't that cleric 4 is not worthy of CR 4. The issue is more that they tend to have horrible AC and in general get shafted on equipment. I get they're supposed to be "feral" and justh ave hide armor and some weak claw weapons, but....the game is very gear-dependent, and if you're not giving classed humanoids the equipment and magic items expected of them, they are much weaker. I find when I don't want to give the NPCs appropriate magic items (either out of laziness of looking them up, or because I don't want the party getting ever more loot), it's best to just add a level or (sometimes, for non-casters) two, to make up for it. I did also make an extensive re-write of vow of poverty for any alignment to alleviate such issues, too. The stats are also written with mostly core rules only, and using elite array. Few DMs place such restrictions on the PCs, and while it may be stating the obvious...you need to optimize the NPCs to the level the PCs are allowed to be. Which is daunting when you have to do it for hundreds of characters, so DMs probably are just running the inquisitors as-is and getting the predictable result. Of course, being the most vile, evil characters in the setting also makes them giant targets for the party's wrath. I optimize my inquisitors and they still drop fast, simply because as soon as the party gets to fight one, they will always go 100% full force, focused-fire on him/her, even (in my experience, at least) taking AoOs and risks to do so, because they hate them just that much. That probably exacerbates the problem and is why inquisitors in particular are mentioned as being too weak (the various caster / non-caster multiclass characters are far weaker and more pathetic for their listed CRs...apparently "nonassociated class levels" was never taken into account). [/QUOTE]
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