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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ppaladin123" data-source="post: 4794792" data-attributes="member: 60923">Ah, I see. So pretending to be a tiefling or dragon-man is for kids while pretending to be an elf is for adults. (Wait, weren't there tieflings and dragon-men in previous editions too? Weren't teenagers in the old days drawn to the same sorts of archetypes? Didn't Stan Lee make a fortune exploiting this with X-men and the Incredible Hulk in the 1960s and 70s?)There is no need to eulogize subtler rpg styles. My groups seem to be able to produce role-play intensive, rich fantasy worlds in 4e as well as we could in 3e (and better than when I played 2e because I am older and have a more nuanced world view these days). My guess is that those people who started playing OD&D, 1e and 2e as teenagers and kids didn't initially produce subtle, incredibly nuanced worlds with moral ambiguity either. As gamers get older what they want and what they expect out of their rpg experience will change. The current rules (3e and 4e) are flexible enough to allow their games to evolve as their tastes change. I see no evidence this is any different than it ever was.Note: you can produce subtle, nuanced role playing experiences that use dragon-men and tieflings too!</blockquote>