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<blockquote data-quote="Sylrae" data-source="post: 4863568" data-attributes="member: 48520">Hey Hawken, we used to rub eachother the wrong way, but lately, I'm agreeing with almost all of your points.&quot;The price you pay&quot; being the likelyhood of a character so bad you have no reason to multiclass, isnt an answer, it's a copout.The 20%+ xp penalty isnt a good balance for multiclassing, it's a &quot;well if they use a couple very specific examples or plan real hard they'll be overpowered&quot; so lets nerf all of them so the idea of multiclassing isnt going to cross anyone's mind unless they dont care how terrible it makes them.Somneone who isnt just trying to munchkin things shouldnt be gimped as much as they are. There are perfectly legitimate combinations that are just as reasonable as a single class, and multiclassing makes me appreciate not having my players ask me to help them design a class from scratch as often. They can multiclass to have almost the same effect if I dont gimp them. but at the same time, I dont want to encourage munchkining, so the non-munchkin applications of multiclass shouldnt be penalized, but munchkining should be made harder.That being said, Hawken's Idea of +2 to any two saves at level one (or split one of the saves into a +1/+1) doesnt sound so bad to me, as long as you cant stack more than 2 on the same save. Hell, I think I'd be satisfied with half that, just the 2 +1s. I'm using a faster good save progression for each class, then let them pick two saves at level one for a +1 bonus, or 1 save with a +2. In the end they'kll have slightly better saves. The monsters will have crappier saves too at the really low levels, so itll even out.Also, I see little distinction when it comes to multiclassing between PrCs and regular Classes, the problems im referring to are still there, with the esception of the XP penalties. im not seeing any logic behind that one, but its there.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Sylrae, post: 4863568, member: 48520"] Hey Hawken, we used to rub eachother the wrong way, but lately, I'm agreeing with almost all of your points. "The price you pay" being the likelyhood of a character so bad you have no reason to multiclass, isnt an answer, it's a copout. The 20%+ xp penalty isnt a good balance for multiclassing, it's a "well if they use a couple very specific examples or plan real hard they'll be overpowered" so lets nerf all of them so the idea of multiclassing isnt going to cross anyone's mind unless they dont care how terrible it makes them. Somneone who isnt just trying to munchkin things shouldnt be gimped as much as they are. There are perfectly legitimate combinations that are just as reasonable as a single class, and multiclassing makes me appreciate not having my players ask me to help them design a class from scratch as often. They can multiclass to have almost the same effect if I dont gimp them. but at the same time, I dont want to encourage munchkining, so the non-munchkin applications of multiclass shouldnt be penalized, but munchkining should be made harder. That being said, Hawken's Idea of +2 to any two saves at level one (or split one of the saves into a +1/+1) doesnt sound so bad to me, as long as you cant stack more than 2 on the same save. Hell, I think I'd be satisfied with half that, just the 2 +1s. I'm using a faster good save progression for each class, then let them pick two saves at level one for a +1 bonus, or 1 save with a +2. In the end they'kll have slightly better saves. The monsters will have crappier saves too at the really low levels, so itll even out. Also, I see little distinction when it comes to multiclassing between PrCs and regular Classes, the problems im referring to are still there, with the esception of the XP penalties. im not seeing any logic behind that one, but its there. [/QUOTE]

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