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<blockquote data-quote="FrogReaver" data-source="post: 7015727" data-attributes="member: 6795602">First of all, you can mischaracterize my position on cantrips all you want.&nbsp; I disqualified 3-4 of them.&nbsp; How many cantrips are there in the game again?&nbsp; Yea, that's right, I don't get anywhere close to calling the entirety of the cantrip system an exception.Second of all the mischaracterize my position on combat being important as ignoring 66% of the game.&nbsp; I totally agree that exploration and socialization are important aspects.&nbsp; So how valuable is expertise in such situations?&nbsp; That's a very hard question to answer because it depends on how often your DM gives everyone a check for something vs how often your DM has the whole group low an ability and the lowest ability check screws the group.&nbsp; How that interaction plays out really matters for how useful +3 in a skill actually is.&nbsp; Likewise their are feats which add some very useful socialization and exploration abilities.&nbsp; Many multiclass combos split 2/3 and lose out on the ability of getting said feat by level 5.Personally, the difference in +3 and +6 on a skill check is relatively small in the games I've played in because most DM's run the skill check system poorly because they don't think at all about using statistics to inform them on how they should run it.So there is always a consideration of social and exploration.&nbsp; However, most abilities don't add a lot in those situations.&nbsp; The most notable ability in such situations is pass without trace, a level 2 spell.&nbsp; But I think I already mentioned something like that could be worth trading the extra attack for especially in campaigns with larger parties.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="FrogReaver, post: 7015727, member: 6795602"] First of all, you can mischaracterize my position on cantrips all you want. I disqualified 3-4 of them. How many cantrips are there in the game again? Yea, that's right, I don't get anywhere close to calling the entirety of the cantrip system an exception. Second of all the mischaracterize my position on combat being important as ignoring 66% of the game. I totally agree that exploration and socialization are important aspects. So how valuable is expertise in such situations? That's a very hard question to answer because it depends on how often your DM gives everyone a check for something vs how often your DM has the whole group low an ability and the lowest ability check screws the group. How that interaction plays out really matters for how useful +3 in a skill actually is. Likewise their are feats which add some very useful socialization and exploration abilities. Many multiclass combos split 2/3 and lose out on the ability of getting said feat by level 5. Personally, the difference in +3 and +6 on a skill check is relatively small in the games I've played in because most DM's run the skill check system poorly because they don't think at all about using statistics to inform them on how they should run it. So there is always a consideration of social and exploration. However, most abilities don't add a lot in those situations. The most notable ability in such situations is pass without trace, a level 2 spell. But I think I already mentioned something like that could be worth trading the extra attack for especially in campaigns with larger parties. [/QUOTE]

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