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<blockquote data-quote="Henry" data-source="post: 142165" data-attributes="member: 158">Agreed; DM is final arbiter for class changes. However, if a DM wishes to not be as strict in his players' class choices, there is no reason to deny it on grounds of &quot;Rules abuse.&quot; After all, he only gets divine grace (a bonus to saves that becomes less relevant at higher levels), divine health (which stays useful), lay on hands (for the same effect as carrying a cure light wounds potion around), and detect evil (which is useful, but also gets you into trouble at higher levels). So compare that to the loss of a whole spellcasting level and spells known - the sorcerer is now two levels behind a straight wizard in spells acquired. And for a PC who is mainly sorcerer, this is a rather large loss for gain in categories that a mage has no business being in (such as physical combat).Again, I can point to numerous examples in legend and contemporary fiction where a god isn't ASKED for the power; rather he gives it to people who aren't even in the want for it, or possibly do not even recognize him as a god. Examples include Joan of Arc, the biblical Saul (Paul) of Tarsus, and Velendo, Cleric of Calphas from Piratecat's campaign, whose true belief didn't begin until AFTER he was a priest, yet was chosen to be a sacred vessel! (Sagiro correct me if I'm wrong.)Again, agreed. The rules are explicit - if the Player can't walk the walk after talking the talk, then the divine powers go bye-bye.That alone makes it worthwhile to follow the tenets. Trust me - trading in a level of sorcerer for a level of warrior SUCKS. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

[QUOTE="Henry, post: 142165, member: 158"] [B][/b] Agreed; DM is final arbiter for class changes. However, if a DM wishes to not be as strict in his players' class choices, there is no reason to deny it on grounds of "Rules abuse." After all, he only gets divine grace (a bonus to saves that becomes less relevant at higher levels), divine health (which stays useful), lay on hands (for the same effect as carrying a cure light wounds potion around), and detect evil (which is useful, but also gets you into trouble at higher levels). So compare that to the loss of a whole spellcasting level and spells known - the sorcerer is now two levels behind a straight wizard in spells acquired. And for a PC who is mainly sorcerer, this is a rather large loss for gain in categories that a mage has no business being in (such as physical combat). [b][/b] Again, I can point to numerous examples in legend and contemporary fiction where a god isn't ASKED for the power; rather he gives it to people who aren't even in the want for it, or possibly do not even recognize him as a god. Examples include Joan of Arc, the biblical Saul (Paul) of Tarsus, and Velendo, Cleric of Calphas from Piratecat's campaign, whose true belief didn't begin until AFTER he was a priest, yet was chosen to be a sacred vessel! (Sagiro correct me if I'm wrong.) Again, agreed. The rules are explicit - if the Player can't walk the walk after talking the talk, then the divine powers go bye-bye. That alone makes it worthwhile to follow the tenets. Trust me - trading in a level of sorcerer for a level of warrior SUCKS. :) [/QUOTE]

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