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Message: <blockquote data-quote="TheGorramBatman" data-source="post: 6364894" data-attributes="member: 6778804">I guess my issue is that I'm not trying to do anything silly or ridiculous.  I'm just trying to wedge five levels of Valor Bard and 3 levels of Battlemaster Fighter together to make some sort of Warlord thing (yeah I know there is a feat, but a single battlemaster die makes for possibly one of the weakest feats in the game and wouldn't satisfy the character feel I'm going for).It's only 8 levels out of 20.  The order isn't particularly important, though I'd like 3 levels of Valor Bard and 3 of Battlemaster as soon as possible.  Obviously that isn't happening.  8 levels in total, the other 12 can go to either class, really not picky.  As far as multiclassing builds go it's rather tame and forgiving at first glance.It's not.  I should be able to find an order that satisfies me and it seems ridiculous that I can't.  Anyone swinging a weapon needs a second attack (or equivalent) as soon as possible and stopping one level to put off an ability increase/feat for four whole levels is not a smart move at all.So you've go 6 levels of Valor Bard, might as well make it 8 for another ability increase.  At this point you could swing over to Battlemaster 3... well hell, might as well make it 4... and you're halfway through your career before the build did what little you were asking of it in the first place.OK.  So try 3 levels of Battlemaster first.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /><img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /><img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /><img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />.  Make it 5 for the attack.  Damn.  6 for the Ability increase.  Now over to Valor Bard for 3.  Online at 9, but your 10th level is pretty much chosen as Bard whether you like it or not for a fourth level ability increase from Bard.  Well crap, it comes online sooner but doesn't leave you much better off.I understand wanting to discourage multiclassing and the general idea behind it.  Hell, I've been playing a Pathfinder campaign for a year now and those guys love their single classing.  I just don't think it should be discouraged to the point where picking up two low level class features either shunts you way behind the major class features of your peers or takes 12 damn levels to come online.</blockquote>

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