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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 6272000" data-attributes="member: 42582">I'm not saying that anyone has to think of game mechanics as extending beyond combat. Some people only want to play a combat game. Others want to play a non-combat game that is adjudicated entirely freeform rather than mechanically.My point is that [MENTION=2518]Derren[/MENTION] is imputing to [MENTION=11821]Obryn[/MENTION] an identity of "mechanical effectiveness" and "combat power" that Obryn (and many others) do not agree with.I don't understand. As best I can tell you think you're disagreeing with me, but I don't know what you're disagreeing about. I think of the game as a set of defined mechanics: PC build, scene-framing (which includes mechanics for defining conflicts, like monster-building and DC setting) and action resolution.My point, which was made in response to Derren, is that those mechanics need not be confined to combat mechanics, and that when I think about the mechanical effectiveness of a character I am not necessarily thinking about his/her combat effectiveness.No. I don't think I said that it is, did I? I know that [MENTION=11821]Obryn[/MENTION] didn't say that it is, given that one of the posts I quoted talks about rebuilding being an opportunity to take advantage of whatever multi-class rules might exist.I didn't say anything about 3E-style multi-classing. All I did (besides disagreeing with some points made by Derren) was to strongly endorse Obryn's suggestion that reubiling be an expressly permitted part of the PC build rules, and provide a link to an example from my own campaign.I think there are big issues with 3E multi-classing, namely that playable PCs depend upon 1st level being front-loaded, and this front-loading tends to lead to broken-ness when players are allowed to level-dip later on, which then leads to adjustments to 1st level to try and balance multi-classing which then has distorting effects on class design, such as the elimination of front-loading which then means I don't actually get to play the character I envisioned until I've gained multiple levels. (Personally I prefer the 4e approach to hybrids: design classes to be their own thing; present hybrid options; and warn everyone involved that they might break the game through over- or under-power and that it is therefore up to game participants to handle with care.)If a decent, balanced 3E-style system can be developed that doesn't distort class design more generally, go for it! If it doesn't, on its own, do a very good job of handling the assassin-to-cleric mid-career conversion, I don't regard that as much of a strike against it.But all these issues have nothing to do with whether or not rebuilding should be part of the game. Nor do they tell us anything about the best way for handlng a PC's mid-life career change.</blockquote>

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