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Message: <blockquote data-quote="zookeeper" data-source="post: 4341724" data-attributes="member: 70600">TY - good to be back, and I'm glad this discussion is exciting.  This is the way the rules are written.  Right, that what I was talking about, but you can not replace with your sceond class power.  But, those are still only possible bonuses. Back to the wall only applies when you are adjacent to a wall. Combat Anticipation only applies to ranged, close or area attacks. Whereas Great Fortitude grants a permenant, full time +2 bonus to a defense. So, there is the competition. And Improved Critical (Epic Tier feats) used to be (in 3.5) bonuses a fighter could get at level 8.   Yes, I agree. But, the rules from 3.5 were changed to this to make Quick Draw different. In 3.5 Quick Draw was only to draw weapons in less time, and in 3.5 Drinking a potion did provoke an AoO, even if you already had it in your hand.  Point here was that you did not need to spend 2 feats to get the same bonuses. Example: One-handed weapon, Light Shield, and Weapon Focus does the same (actually using a Heavy Shield would add +1 AC and +1 Ref Def) with only spending 1 feat.  Oh - I'm sure there are ways around every rule. But, as stated previously in 3.5 you gat additional attacks as you leveled up. You spent a while training (lower levels) and eventually got better and faster so you could make additional attacks each round (assuming you did not move). Now in 4.0 no matter how long you've trained and gained experience you will never get any faster, never get a second attack each round.   Same difference, if its not useful its not valuable. Some people think things are useful and therefore valuable, where others have quite the opposite opinion. Does not make a big difference.  OK - You got me there, I decided that those feats are not valuable, but I still want more that have value for me to pick from.  I supose your right, powerful and special are relitive terms.   Wizards will know more but can only cast 1 of each level per day. Also that brings up another question which I do not understand. Why after casting this 1st level spell for soooo long you replace it and all of a sudden you can't remember it anymore. That is like driving your car daily to and from work, and the day you licence expires you suddenly don't know how to drive. Since I read this the first time, I thought it might be better to learn a new power rather than replace and forget.  I both agree and disagree with this. The differences were probably the feats. But, the feats didn't control the what the fighter could do or how they could do it, it was more of the bonuses the fighters recieved from the feats. Weapon Focus (+1 to Hit), Weapon Specialization (+2 Damage), Greater of each (Additional +1 and +2 respectively), Improved Critical, Improved Disarm, Improved Sunder, (disarming your opponent and/or breaking thier weapons were great), I could go on for a while. With all the additional "Splat" books for 3.5 there were over 4000 feats in total.   These spell feats you mention only work with certain spells. And Spell Focus adds 2 to the save of a spell nothing for duration. In 3.5, Extend Spell increased the range by 50%, Empower Spell added 50% Damage, etc. and they worked with all spells.  As for melee feats see previous paragraph. Astral Fire has nothing to do with turning undead, but Extra Turning in 3.5 granted additional attempts to turn undead. Backstabber almost seems to be a neccessity for the 4.0 rouge. The 3.5 rouge at 19th level had 10d6 sneak attack damage where the 4.0 rouge has a max (with the feat) of 5d8.  This I have noticed, and from my reading it does not seem like a good change (IMO), but I will reserve final judgement until I have played a few times so I can make a decision based on play rather than one reading. Don't want to judge a book by its cover (so to speak).  You are correct, most attacks will be against AC. But it is far easier to raise your AC (via new armor or magics) than it is to raise your Fortitude Defense.  Great Fortitude or other defense feats are not situational. In both versions the feat is described as "+2 Bonus to Fortitude" Only difference is the last word(s). 3.5 says "saving throws" and 4.0 says "defense". And I am not trying to say they are better than every other feat. I'm saying (IMO) they are very useful and therefore very valuable, and even more at lower levels.  OK - I see that point. But in situations like fighting (as with the game) I don't think there is any reason for class balance. A melee fighter is going to take the brunt of things and has high HP to do so, a wizard usually stands back and throws spells around not getting hit too much and therefore should be a weaker character class.  OK - using the rules as written is an idea. But it does not do much for the type of character I like to play. I like the character that can do a little of everything. I like playing a character that is a controller/striker/defender. Which was usually a fighter/wizard combo, but could also be cleric/rouge or fighter/cleric, and I even played a cleric/wizard which was a mistake on my part, but we needed it. Thats probably why I'm so down or upset by these rules.</blockquote>

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